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Old 12-06-2012, 09:46 AM   #61 (permalink)
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I guess it's all been said and nobody else should post...even those with 13 years experience of managing the exact issue.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:11 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Easy...I was not responding do you (I was responding to Jane, hadn't read the whole page).
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:34 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Chris wrote the statement below and I could not agree more! I have an adopted dog who spent the first 1 1/2 years of her life isolated in a darkened garage. No socialization with dogs or people. And probably a genetic nightmare too! We have had her in our lives for about 2 1/2 years now. Originally she was terrified of other dogs, even an eight week old puppy. Now she is pretty good with other dogs, but still terrified of people outside of her immediate family. I have rehabbed hundreds of dogs (and some of them were extreme challenges) over the last 20 years and this one simply cannot be fixed, she has to be managed. She is safe and happy with us. On the rare occasion that we have visitors, I have to watch her every move - she is famous for trying to bite people in the butt. We tried socializing and attending classes for fearful dogs - she goes into her own little zone and cannot be reached. No amount of bribes, clicks, threats, no amount of ANYTHING can reach her when she gets into crazy zone. Her fears shut her down. We walk her in the woods and away from places where we will encounter other people/dogs. This is a lifestyle with her that we have chosen to accept - most folks would not put up with our crazy girl. We do not have kids so that makes our decision a lot easier than a situation where someone does have kids and lots of visitors.


I agree with Cliff. Yes, many problems are man made by owners, even well meaning ones. But just as often the problems are there from the start due to genetics. There definitely ARE dogs with genetically weak temperament and nothing will change that. They can be managed, but they cannot be fixed no matter how skilled the trainer or how much one might want to fix them.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:00 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Rebel, nobody has "encouraged killing the dog". Not one person. All anyone has said that if all options are eventually exhausted, it is something to consider. Rehoming this dog would be pretty much impossible and would in all likelihood be irresponsible. Extreme management is sometimes not an option, especially in a family setting...and if a behaviorist says that is what is necessary, there are other alternatives. No one has said "I think he should be put down right now!" or "this dog will never be saved! Kill it!"

It has only been suggested (in the extreme worst case), because many people can't fathom euthanasia being an option and feel like they would be failing the dog, when in fact, if all other options have been exhausted, it is probably the kindest thing they could do. All of it was said with the large "IF", IF management is impossible.
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:20 PM   #65 (permalink)
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LoveEcho said:
Quote:
Rehoming this dog would be pretty much impossible
Actually Marnie said she'd take the dog a few posts back, there's a solution)

Seriously, I agree a dog like this has to be managed, and it's a 24/7 job.. While my dogs are 'house dogs', I think just about any dog can live comfortably outside with the right situation and one where the dog is not just 'banished' outside.

If he enjoys being out there to begin with, (I think the oP said he likes and is outside most of the time anyway)...You can always try it , I would jsut make sure no one outside the family has access to him, like your daughters friends..

I would not rehome him, he's been shuffled around enough.. Hope you find a solution that is safe for everyone
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:46 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I think that sometimes we get too human in our thinking when it comes to dogs. A dog like this can be managed, but if there are little kids living in the home, then I don't think it should be considered.

If there are grandchildren that come over sometimes, that is fine.

This is just an option and my reason for it:

Not every dog is a social butterfly. Some dogs are shy. They do not want to go to dog parks, or dog shows, or pet stores, or training classes. They would be just as happy to chase a ball in the back yard and stay home ALL THE TIME. In that situation the dog is simply in its own element.

Now, what is needed is a good solid secure kennel, preferably outside or with an outside section, within a securely fenced back yard. But having a secure kennel in a garage or basement would work as well. I guess ideally would be a kennel with a section in the back yard, a doggy door into a garage, and a 4x8 foot securely kenneled area in the garage.

When one leaves for work in the morning, the dog goes into the kennel. When the person comes home in the evening, the dog comes into the house for some time. Exercise in the back yard, etc.

Whenever you are not there to focus on the dog, the dog is put in the kennel. Whenever you are going to have a stranger over, the dog is put in the kennel. No one is permitted to go out and bother the dog when it is in its kennel. If the grand children are over, the dog gets kenneled.

It is certainly manageable for most households. But households with little kids living there, I would say no. Even if the dog is perfectly comfortable with the children in the home, children have friends over, and it is just too easy for an accident to happen.

Children should not be prevented from having a normal childhood because of an aggressive dog.

I am sorry the breeder was not more helpful. Why the dog is having this issue is really not as important as ensuring the dog not bite anyone else. Some dogs I guess are fearful forever. Some dogs seem to mature and become less reactive. If nothing else a breeder should be able to manage the dog as described above. But there is no guaranty that the breeder won't put such a dog down.
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:57 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:57 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanBuren shepherds View Post
The dog might work for an individual who is single and without children. It's not the most exciting life for a GSD, but it might be the best opportunity for them to have a long healthy life.
I think this situation would be the most exciting for the dog, actually. Or you think single people do not go anywhere, do not train, do not socialize, and everything has to evolve around children?

Re original subject. You need to rehome the dog. If you have these thoughts now you need to rehome the dog asap before you start resenting and hating him. The 'trainers' and 'behaviorists' verdicts need to be taken with a grain of salt, regardless how much they charge.

Putting the dog down before even trying to get in touch with a rescue/people who know GSD? Here are two examples of dogs that had to be put down and this decision would be supported on this board. One dog, over 2 yo, was 'abused, dog aggressive, snapped at children, roamed the neighborhood, muzzled when on public, had serious problems, free to good home or put down'. Well, this dog went to friends of mine after I met the dog, and he is now 'the best tempered and the sweetest GSD we have ever met." (quote from his new owners). Go figure.

Another case, a dog that bit the youngest child in the family, badly, couldn't stay at home. Right now the dog is in LE and the handler says that he thought that his previous dog was good but he was wrong, this dog is just everything what he ever dreamed to have in his K9 partner.

Real dogs, heartbreaking situations but people worked through them and found a win-win solution.

About the breeder, cut your losses and move on.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:12 PM   #69 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=GSD07;2649070]I think this situation would be the most exciting for the dog, actually. Or you think single people do not go anywhere, do not train, do not socialize, and everything has to evolve around children?


Sorry, I'll try not to offend any single people next time I post. Lol. Thanks for pointing that out GSD07!


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Old 12-07-2012, 11:34 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSD07 View Post
I think this situation would be the most exciting for the dog, actually. Or you think single people do not go anywhere, do not train, do not socialize, and everything has to evolve around children?

Re original subject. You need to rehome the dog. If you have these thoughts now you need to rehome the dog asap before you start resenting and hating him. The 'trainers' and 'behaviorists' verdicts need to be taken with a grain of salt, regardless how much they charge.

Putting the dog down before even trying to get in touch with a rescue/people who know GSD? Here are two examples of dogs that had to be put down and this decision would be supported on this board. One dog, over 2 yo, was 'abused, dog aggressive, snapped at children, roamed the neighborhood, muzzled when on public, had serious problems, free to good home or put down'. Well, this dog went to friends of mine after I met the dog, and he is now 'the best tempered and the sweetest GSD we have ever met." (quote from his new owners). Go figure.

Another case, a dog that bit the youngest child in the family, badly, couldn't stay at home. Right now the dog is in LE and the handler says that he thought that his previous dog was good but he was wrong, this dog is just everything what he ever dreamed to have in his K9 partner.

Real dogs, heartbreaking situations but people worked through them and found a win-win solution.

About the breeder, cut your losses and move on.
I'm sorry if I offended any single people out there. That was not my intentions. I failed to chews up my words before I spitz thems out! Lol! Thank you for pointing that out to me GSD07! I was just thinking a dog raised with children would probably miss having children. But, what do I know I'm not an expert and all my GSD's have been raised with children. So I've only seen one side of the coin. Just giving my opinion like everyone else. I will strive next time to make sure that there is no possible way for me to say anything that would offend someone. WAIT! That's impossible! Unless, I say nothing at all! Lol


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