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Old 12-05-2012, 01:19 PM   #21 (permalink)
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OP this is a long shot...but I looked at your previous thread. Is it possible your boy is in pain?

Elbow Dysplasia or Pano?
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:25 PM   #22 (permalink)
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And I do LOVE this dog. I readily admit that I am not an experienced german shepherd dog owner. He is my first, although my parents had one while I was growing up. I knew a lot about the breed and did extensive research before buying him. The reason we went with this breeder was because we believed we were getting a high quality dog. I knew there would be a lot of training. I had him in puppy class within 2 weeks of getting him home. We have been in constant training since then. He passed basic obedience although we took it twice to work on his issues with other dogs. After the first lunge, bark snap incident I brought
in a behaviorist who has extensive experience with shepherds. He worked with me for several weeks. The bite incident took place after all this. I feel that I have done what I can do for him. This is not a dog purchased on a whim then thrown in the backyard. At his puppy class(not a Petsmart training class) the trainer indicated he was the most sensitive and fearful shepherd she had come across. At his first obedience class( different facility that had more experience with shepherds) the very shepherd experienced trainer believed she would have been bitten by my dog if she hadn't known how to react. Because she wanted to stand behind him at a distance of about 8 feet. He has improved from that point in certain situations but I don't think he will ever improve enough to be trusted in a family situation.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:27 PM   #23 (permalink)
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The breeder is causing a lot of trouble for you, and I'm sorry for that. It is a breeders responsibility to socialize their litters to a certain extent. If you want to keep the dog there is some tough decisions that has to be made. No you shouldn't have to resort to a muzzle for protection during training, but in some cases you do. It depends on how much you want to try with this dog and the risk of keeping them.
I don't think there is anything anyone here that can tell you what you don't already know about the dangers your family can face.
The breeder admits to not socializing the pups the way they said and that could be a part of the problem, but I don't think it is the main problem or the breeder would not have removed the dam from the program.



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Old 12-05-2012, 01:29 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Not in pain that anyone has been able to diagnosis. I have had him to vet. Not ED. The only symptom of thyroid issues is the aggression. He tried to bite the vet too but I understand that isn't uncommon. Vet doesn't believe it's medically related. His elbows are no longer swollen and he doesn't limp or favor any limb.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:33 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Having a GSD that you don't trust is not a situation that anyone wants to be in.
I support you if you have to make a tough decision to protect your family, but I speak with experience. You will always worry if there was something else you could have done. Hopefully everyone will be here to help you through whatever occurs!


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Old 12-05-2012, 01:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Yes, VBS - exactly why I suggested a vet teaching hospital - vets misdiagnose enough (especially with Pano and related ortho issues) to make it a thing where I would get a second opinion, get a thyroid panel done, see the vet behaviorist, etc, because of that worry that there was something missed, something that could have been done.

Even if the end result is still the same - you know you've done it all. I still have regrets from a foster dog years ago who could be viciously aggressive with other dogs and consistently snappy with people - I did not know about the thyroid. It might not have changed things, but I wish I would have known to have that panel run.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Marnie I'll just say I completely disagree and leave it at that. You're welcome to that opinion. As far as looking into the crystal ball I am not the one that claimed the OP was responsible for creating this dog's problems. If the OP dropped the ball with regard to socialization please point out the mistake...as far as I can tell she has gone above and beyond what most people do with a normal, well-adjusted dog (and I don't think she owes us an explanation anyway).
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:53 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I have had the dog long enough to know that his issues are NOT my fault. I have done everything a normal person can do and more to try and work things out with him. I have spent well over the original purchase price working with trainers and a behaviorist with ALOT more experience that I. I have followed everyone's advice to the letter in regards to helping him overcome his fear. Correcting him into submission isn't the answer as that will not change his fear-it will always be there. If I overcorrect him I could just train him to not give any warning signals at all. And then where will I be? All my research has pointed me in the direction that his fearfulness is who he is. I know that my family situation is not the right one to keep people safe. I will not send him to a shelter as the behaviorist has indicated that he would not pass a temperament test. A far as whether or not temperament is set in stone, I disagree. I think some dogs are just born the way they are. I don't think everything can be "fixed". Managed? Probably but not by the average person. She didn't sell this dog to a professional dog handler. She sold him to a mom, dad and their 2 children.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:56 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Jennie- Please PM me. Are you looking to rehome this dog?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:06 PM   #30 (permalink)
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jenniecc- you certainly don't have to plea your case to any of us. I believe you were very forthcoming with your experience with your boy. I strongly believe this is not your fault. Some dogs are just wired different...no amount of socialization is going to fix the core of who the dog is...just my novice opinion. Although I do keep going back to Jean's post and always wonder if there's an underlying health issue....thyroid, tick disease all show signs of aggression.

You have done more than most owners would do. I wish you luck...you have not been dealt a easy hand
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