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Old 11-08-2012, 01:43 PM   #21 (permalink)
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interesting, if i could design my next gsd i know what color i would want, but the traits i want in a gsd are far more important than color. in other word, i wouldn't let color determine how i choose a pup.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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it all depends on your goals for u and the dog are. What are your plans. This is your first shepherd?
My plans are to eventually compete at a regional/national level. International competition doesn't appeal to me at this time but that could change. I have owned GSDs all my life, never for competition but more of a companion and i want to change that up.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:16 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Top Sport or Color - those 2 criteria are very very very far apart....the dog who won this years Nationals had medium to light color.....the darkest dog in the trial was way down the list.....the black dogs were not high either.....and points are NOT EVERYTHING!!! The Nationals winner is a nice dog - but he won based on secondary obedience - other equally as strong or stronger dogs lost more points on fronts, basic position, etc....

I don't see "top sport" probablity in that pedigree...I see some dogs and combos that preclude characteristics needed/causing issues that would let the dog go "top sport" - unless, of course, if you are an experienced "top sport" trainer/handler.....seriously - "top sport" is more about the handler's ability and experience than the actual dog.

If you want "top sport" and elbow, hip etc warranties...then buy an older dog.....you can see what you will get....

That being said - I know of a litter being bred in a few weeks (female in heat) that is from a WUSV competitor, National winner....and both sides are dark to darker sable....female has already produced a "top sport" dog, as has her dam.

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Just saw you put a deposit on a puppy.........

Did you give up on "top sport"????? Seems that color is more important.....while these are nice looking and titled dogs....there is no indication that this breeder is even trying to produce "top sport" pups.....few of hers even show up being titled in trial results.....

If you want a top sport puppy - you go where there is experience at that level IMO

Lee

Lee, I think that it's a total package. Nothing is perfect but we want what we want. If I want a certain type of car or house, i'm going to go to the person I feel can get me there. If I want a dog who has potential to compete at a high level and I want it to be black, I am sure that can be achieved also. It takes the right breeder and more the owner who is molding the dog. But with everything else, it starts somewhere.

I am a very strong handler and believe Jean @ schraderhausk9 will give me exactly what i am looking for.

I believe a dog is a reflection of breeding but also the owner, so if she gives me a pup with all that she believes i am looking for, I can get him all the way there. This is the confidence i have in myself and my ability when given the right tools/instrument.

I also dont believe point are everything, there are dogs that place 4th or 5th that are amazing so this i know. But i also know that there are dogs out there that compete very well and are black, like Italo z Eurosportu or Erri z Blatenskeho.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:24 PM   #24 (permalink)
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interesting, if i could design my next gsd i know what color i would want, but the traits i want in a gsd are far more important than color. in other word, i wouldn't let color determine how i choose a pup.
I agree but if you could get both, why not get both?? If you have a breeder who has dogs with lines that produce and will give the color you'd like......seems to me you would.

Yes, I have seen that everyone has there own idea of this. To me this seems like a topic with people on both sides. When you are paying $1500 - $2000, if not more. You want as close to when you can get as possible. And you'd pick a breeder who believes s/he can offer you this.

Everyone here offers awesome opinions, great to see healthy debate/conversations happening.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:51 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I kind of agree with the OP to a certain extent.

I would NEVER compromise temperament for colour, but if you really love a particular look and colour, is there anything wrong with holding out for the whole package?

I'm curious?

For someone like me, I don't own a kennel full of dogs. Why would a person pick a black lab over a yellow or chocolate for example, if they were all well bred dogs from a good breeder? People pick colours all the time.

I'll admit, I was smitten with the sable female in my pup's litter, but the breeder picked a black pup for me. I was a bit disappointed. Now that I have her, I wonder what I was thinking - she's gorgeous, and since you don't see a heck of a lot of black GSD's outside in the real world I think she's unique and people ogle her all the time when I'm out and about.

My horse too, I always hated chestnut horses, but of course that's what I ended up buying.

Can you not have your cake and eat it too? I realize colour isn't important in the grand scheme of things, but with all the nice dogs out there, is it so bad if that is a criteria? Even if it's lower down on the list?

It's not really something I'd get too hung up on, but if I were looking at two dogs who were more or less equal, but one came in the colour I liked, would it be bad to pick that one, for that reason?

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Old 11-08-2012, 03:54 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Erri and Italo are with top experienced handlers....neither were bred by a kennel whose pups are primarily sold to companion homes.....I have a nice nice looking Sch3 black dog myself - ruined in OB/dumbbells unfortunately - went to a Regional with him early on...but the dumbbells kept me from being competitive....you won't find a better looking black dog than my male's sire....also Sch3 and V rated...

I am sure you will get a nice looking puppy. I am sure you will enjoy your puppy.....but if you want to be competitive, you get a pup from someone who produces a good percentage of dogs who get titled.....

Lee
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:59 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I know of 2 or 3 breeders in czech that mainly produce black dogs that do sport at top levels.

I agree with what Lee said about the term "top sport"
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:42 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Erri and Italo are with top experienced handlers....neither were bred by a kennel whose pups are primarily sold to companion homes.....I have a nice nice looking Sch3 black dog myself - ruined in OB/dumbbells unfortunately - went to a Regional with him early on...but the dumbbells kept me from being competitive....you won't find a better looking black dog than my male's sire....also Sch3 and V rated...

I am sure you will get a nice looking puppy. I am sure you will enjoy your puppy.....but if you want to be competitive, you get a pup from someone who produces a good percentage of dogs who get titled.....

Lee

Lee, I am confused. Are you referring to schraderhausk9?? I am confused, since in doing my research, there were only a handful of kennels that came up. You were actually one of the first i emailed but never got back to me. Jean seemed really respected and from what I have seen, she has lots of SG/V rated, SCH3/IPO3/BSP/WUSV dogs with lots of great looking parents and on and on.

I think Italo/Erri because they have a great handler but those handlers started somewhere. Some people are great because they work hard and bond so great with their dog. But the dog has a lot to do with this and the breeder.

Before you got into GSDs, you had to trust someone to guide you, you had to read and research and go look. I have/had to do the same and after literally contacting no less than 30 breeders, not counting overseas, Jean got it. Now maybe I wont get what I am looking for still but maybe I will. Jean does her part as a breeder and gives me what I am looking for in a pup and I'll do the rest.

I thought Krougar was amazing and I wanted a pup from him like crazy but I think Argo is equally amazing.

If you have a different perspective, please PM me. Call me, lets chat. I love to learn and chat about things people are passionate about. It makes the whole process so much more rewarding.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:46 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Lee, could you also please tell me what you see that would give you pause to think this dog would be good for "Top Sport?" I honestly don't know as much as you in this regard and maybe your concerns would be mine, if I knew what they were.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:59 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I always wonder why the black dog doesn't have a name-liked his dam -actually I own her granddaughter-I wanted a bi-color
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