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Old 09-07-2012, 12:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default GSD from working lines?

Is that the correct term? Working line vs work line?

Anyway, after just a few minutes reading / researching this, I came to the conclusion that I'd be most interested in a working line GSD.

I don't know yet what the thoughts are regarding show vs working here but I think that it's a bit of a travesty what has happened to the breed. I always thought that the biggest problem was BYB not caring if one of the dogs wasn't a purebred or even a true GSD.

But, I notice a lot of 'show lines' or sloped back GSDs out there. My family's dog, Max (my fav. out of 3) was probably one. He had hip dysplasia. :-( I looked at a bunch of pictures of dogs with sloped backs, these are now called North American Shepherds? I can see how the dogs won't have enough strength in their hips! There's not enough structure on their lower backs and above the tail!

If I was getting a puppy, I'd want to have all the info regarding hip health, that's for sure. I'd also REQUEST working lines. However, they seem rare in NA especially Canada. Also, probably expensive, right?

Anyway, I was curious if that is a major topic here? How do you ensure you have working lines? Evidence or proof of registration of German working lines or what? It seems like it would be almost impossible to find and if you do, you need to be rich to afford it? Or the typical prices are around $1500?

I guess I just wanted to say that the breeders that are dedicated to working lines and doing their part to continue the breed (to the standard) are to be commended. They probably have less health problems and the dogs are more likely to lead (less) pain-free lives. Good for them.

I'm not sure whether I'll be fortunate and lucky to be able to own a working line GSD but this site is great for knowing what to look for and obtain related info!

I guess my final question is how to find such breeders. I guess you have to google 'working lines' and GSD breeders in your area/locale? I already own a senior (toy breed) non-GSD and a bit apprehensive about introducing another dog. A family member is not liking that idea and I guess I'm ok with it. But, I want my next dog to be a GSD or GR. My favs.

Anyway, thanks for reading...
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You need to keep reading and learn more about the pedigrees and how to read them. To break it down easily, the WGSL (West German Show Line) dogs are generally the black/red "saddleback" dogs. The dogs will be Schutzhund titled since you need a working title to compete beyond the entry levels in that venue (another qualifying title is the herding title, HGH. Not as common). There are a few sable or blacks out there but for the most part you will see the black/reds. They will generally have a "V" and other high conformation ratings before their name. (Like VA4 or V2)
Here is the pedigree for my male WGSL, Ron.
Ankormann von der Wolfenbach - German Shepherd Dog

The Working Line dog pedigrees will have a variety of colors throughout, with sable being dominant, but you will also see blacks, bi-colors and blanket backs. They will also have SchH titles, but you will also see the emphasis will be on the working titles. The conformation ratings before their names will be SG or G (if they have a conformation rating at all), with many less V ratings. But the working titles will have more info, like BSP (Bundesieger participant, the working dog championship), or WUSV meaning they were on a World team. Here is the pedigree for my WL female, Uma.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/germ...html?id=686620
The biggest thing to do is read pedigrees and learn the kennel names of the current and legendary kennels (both show and work) so you can figure out what you like and want. There are plenty of pedigrees where there will be some of both, as crossing show to work was much more common even 20 years ago. Oh, and $1500 is about average for a WL pup. Most around here go for about $1800-2000.
One good way to find a breeder is to get involved with Schutzhund in your area. Go watch some dogs and when you see some you like find out where they came from.
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Last edited by bocron; 09-07-2012 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Exactly the info that I've been looking for/at. It's a bit much at first but it slowly gets easier. Trust me.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
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There are some excellent breeders in North America that never get a chance because of the cache of an imported dog . What is your location .

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Old 09-07-2012, 02:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
But, I notice a lot of 'show lines' or sloped back GSDs out there. My family's dog, Max (my fav. out of 3) was probably one. He had hip dysplasia. :-( I looked at a bunch of pictures of dogs with sloped backs, these are now called North American Shepherds? I can see how the dogs won't have enough strength in their hips! There's not enough structure on their lower backs and above the tail!
This is not true. I second the suggestion to do more reading and learning.

They are not "North American Shepherds". They're German Shepherds like all the rest.

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They probably have less health problems and the dogs are more likely to lead (less) pain-free lives. Good for them.
Not really. They're all the same breed, they all share the same breed specific maladies.

I have American show lines, working lines, crosses, and German show lines all in my house. Temperaments and personalities are all varied, but everybody is healthy. I do have one dysplastic bitch (very unfortunate), but you'd never know it to watch her work and play.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:09 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Many of us on here have workline dogs. I never knew they existed until about 6 years ago, but they were always what I was looking for in a dog.

I would suggest you do more research before settling on a breed or type of dog. Goldens and GSDs are vastly different breeds and it's a bit different to be considering both.

Have you considered the energy level of workinglines besides looking at their functionality? I will say that I am not a fan of the american or german showline dog. In my opinion, I find them generally lacking in functionality, workablity, and structural soundness. Yes, there are some that are ok, but they aren't in the same category as a workingline. The energy level of a workingline can be way more than most people can handle, but that's what I like in a dog.

If you still like the workingline dog and are ready to find a breeder, just ask on here for references. Give us your location and we can help you. Not all breeders are reputable and references can make all the difference. You don't need to be rich to own one and my understanding is they are about the same price as an american showline and cheaper than a german showline.
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Xeph View Post
They are not "North American Shepherds". They're German Shepherds like all the rest.
I think what the OP is referring to is the issue a few years ago where the major North American registries tried to override and/or supersede the German breeding requirements, standard and paperwork. It was something of a battle and the SV(the parent club in Germany) basically said if a satisfactory agreement was not made then the SV would no longer recognize the GSDs that had been registered through those registries and that they would no longer recognize them as GSDs at all and would henceforth be considered North American Shepherds.
They came to a mutual agreement and the matter was dropped but many people decided the SVs classification was valid and have continued to refer to the separate types this way on their websites or breeding blurbs.
I'm totally simplifying, but this is the rough draft of the origination of the term.
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elaine View Post
Many of us on here have workline dogs. I never knew they existed until about 6 years ago, but they were always what I was looking for in a dog.

I would suggest you do more research before settling on a breed or type of dog. Goldens and GSDs are vastly different breeds and it's a bit different to be considering both.

Have you considered the energy level of workinglines besides looking at their functionality? I will say that I am not a fan of the american or german showline dog. In my opinion, I find them generally lacking in functionality, workablity, and structural soundness. Yes, there are some that are ok, but they aren't in the same category as a workingline. The energy level of a workingline can be way more than most people can handle, but that's what I like in a dog.

If you still like the workingline dog and are ready to find a breeder, just ask on here for references. Give us your location and we can help you. Not all breeders are reputable and references can make all the difference. You don't need to be rich to own one and my understanding is they are about the same price as an american showline and cheaper than a german showline.
The biggest problem with the working line dogs is that their owners think they are more valid then the other GSDs out there. There are great dogs out there from ALL the different lines. And there are extreme dogs in all the different lines (including working lines). Don't get hung up on color. There are black and tans in the working lines. And there are sables, blacks, bi-colors, blanket backs in the show lines.

One thing though, if you want to go with a working line dog, you might want to get involved in those venues the working line dogs are more likely to be in. Find a good Schutzhund club in your area and start hanging around, maybe offer to help, I don't know, but get to know the people and their dogs. See what you like and what you don't like. Ask people where they got their dog, and ask them about the breeders and what they are known for or if they recommend them.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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There are great working line breeders in Canada.
My dog comes from Narnia Kennels in NB.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
I guess I just wanted to say that the breeders that are dedicated to working lines and doing their part to continue the breed (to the standard) are to be commended. They probably have less health problems and the dogs are more likely to lead (less) pain-free lives. Good for them.
That's not something you want to assume regardless of what line you decide to get. Check to make sure health testing is being done regardless of how great the line may look in a pedigree.
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