Your thoughts on this breeder?

[Aralez]

Hello. I have been searching for a WGSL breeder that has their pups priced under $1000 and doesn't seem sketchy for quite some time now. Every breeder that i felt confident with had their pups priced at $2000+. Every breeder that was below $1000 just didnt seem so reliable.

I believe i have found a breeder who has good pups from good parents in my price range and i just want thoughts from more experienced owners/breeders.

If you guys could take a look at their website and check out the Sire and Dam as well as their pedigree and let me know what you think it will really help me out. The pups are ready for homes on Nov. 6th and im thinking of placing a deposit. Thank you!

Oh, i almost forgot. This breeder does not live in my state. I live in California and they live in Michigan. Any tips on shipping airlines/ground shipping or the process of shipping would be highly appreciated as i am very new to this.

http://trierweiler-german-shepherds.tripod.com/

[Konotashi]

Red flags everywhere.

"He explained that some are bred for police, patrol work and that these dogs usually are higher energy and more aggressive"
It's not true. They are not bred to be aggressive, they're bred with higher drives.

Oversized dogs, calling them 'old style.' Sorry, but oversized is NOT 'old style.'

I also can't seem to find any health clearances from OFA, and it also states that in Germany, the standard is for dogs to be titled. Doesn't say any of their dogs are.

Also, they have pups available from a 1.5 year old bitch. They shouldn't be bred until 2 years old minimum. (They can't get their health clearances before then. Not to mention, she's still a pup herself).

I would run from this breeder. Looks like a BYB that knows how to talk the talk.

ETA: Thought this was rather interesting.
"Beware of those that say they have huge lines but will not give you the true height and weight."
I say beware of 'breeders' who say they have huge lines, period. They're supposed to be medium sized dogs, not giants.

(Sorry for editing this so much, I just keep finding more and more).

Nowhere in their health guarantee do they say anything about hip/elbow displaysia. Just 'life threatening illness' within seven days of purchase. Most all breeders I've seen have something about HD/ED in the contracts. Their dogs are also OFA'd, though.

I'd definitely avoid.

[cliffson1]

They seem to have West German Show lines. It looks like they buy into that philosophy. Health clearances in Germany on hip and elbows can be acquired at 12 months.... Size appears 1/2 inch too large on parents....dogs win in the show ring with this size routinely....missed the giant part in the website. German females can be bred at 20 months if they have titles and health clearances, if I'm not mistaken.
There's not enough there for me to buy a puppy without seeing the parents or knowing the breeders personally, so they could or couldnot have what I want ....just not enough information for me. Trying to look at this objectively and fairly.

[Danielle609]

I agree with Kokotashi 100%. I am fairly new to all of this and do not have a GSD yet. But that being said, I also have a fondness for the WGSL and have a breeder picked out for when I am ready for a pup and she has one that fits my lifestyle. So I do know what a responsible breeder should be doing.
I don't like that their are not any OFA results. Now, IMO, I actually like the stud dog. I am going to be honest, I am not sure what the dimensions/weight is to be within the standard, but I do like his looks and it actually looks like he has a pretty good pedigree (An assumption on my part, I can't pick apart pedigree's like others on the board )

But here is my thought...you get what you pay for. Now that being said I completely disagree with the extreme tier pricing that many WGSL's have where you pay $2,000 for the "low end model" and $8,000 for the "top prospect". I know you only want to pay $1,000...but I would happily spend another $1,000 to know that I have a great breeder to back their pup up. I am not saying that by paying and extra $1,000 you are going to get a perfect pup...it doesn't work like that...but the chances of having a sound dog without any health issues are much greater. And in the circumstance something does go wrong you know they will stand behind you and make it right. That is my 2 cents.

[wolfstraum]

Breeder getting breeding stock as pups from well known sires...slightly oversized and Germany is getting strict on oversize, trying to bring breeding dogs back into standard...overheight dogs moved to back of ring I have seen noted alot...

So parents have no certifications or credentials and the main quality they seem to emphasize is BIG....new twist on same old, same old BYB/commercial kennel "old fashioned" dogs....

As said above, you get what you pay for....add in shipping and vet and crate - $1700+/-.....lots of people in CA breeding - spend the money there and get a pup from someone like Witmer Tyson or Mary ??? (NOT WH) in Oregon where you have a good reputable breeder and resource for help....

Lee

[Smithie86]

Agree. You have some great breeders in CA.

What part of the state are you from?

[BlackGSD]

Originally Posted by wolfstraum

Breeder getting breeding stock as pups from well known sires...slightly oversized and Germany is getting strict on oversize, trying to bring breeding dogs back into standard...overheight dogs moved to back of ring I have seen noted alot...

So parents have no certifications or credentials and the main quality they seem to emphasize is BIG....new twist on same old, same old BYB/commercial kennel "old fashioned" dogs....

As said above, you get what you pay for....add in shipping and vet and crate - $1700+/-.....lots of people in CA breeding - spend the money there and get a pup from someone like Witmer Tyson or Mary ??? (NOT WH) in Oregon where you have a good reputable breeder and resource for help....

Lee

Lee, do you mean Mary Dygert at Temar?

[wolfstraum]

Yes - not sure of prices - but if he is in driving distance, that would be preferable to this MI one once you take all the extras into account!

Lee

[bocron]

I wouldn't classify this breeder as "good" based on what information is available on the website. Based on their little stated opinions throughout the site regarding size, temperament, etc, they aren't very knowledgable about the true history and standard of the breed. The contract alone would make me run far away. Nothing they seem to cover in the contract can be set in stone, the way they underline "life threatening" constantly means they won't stand behind their breeding if it comes down to quality of life and debilitating inherited problems. It basically means the vet has to state in writing that whatever issue arrives will cause death and most vets will NOT state such things for their own protection.
For the amount you are looking to spend I think it will be a long, probably fruitless search. The $1000 you "save" on the front end will most likely be spent dealing with temperament or health issues if you find a pup at that price, since it will probably be a BYB with a convincing website. Personally, I'd spend some time saving up a bit more money and buying the best you can afford and hopefully from a breeder who is close enough for you to visit beforehand. Of course another option is always rescue.

[Gretchen]

I live in CA, you might want to look locally so you can actually go see and pick out your pup. I've met people who have bought their shepherds from the Fresno area and were very satisfied. I bought mine from a breeder in Bonny Doon, Eric Falconer, his pups run about $1200/female $1500/male. There is also a retired police officer, Lance Stackhouse of the K9 Clinic in Corralitos who breeds GSD's. When we were looking there seemed to be a few very good looking dogs from breeders from Sacramento to LA. The LA area seems to have a large choice of rescue dogs if you are interested or live down there.