Help me choose / find breeder

[neupane00]

Okay before i start writing paragraphs, let me be clear on who i am and what i am looking for .

1. Im very experienced dog owner and trained dogs. I HAVE NOT have any german shepherd in the past.

2. Looking for primarily a companion.

3. Will be giving my new gsd an hour walk every day. Play fetch ball. Medium- high ball drive

4. I primarily use food for training, so high food drive.

5. NO NOT WANT american show line - thats something i can rule out immediately.

6. Will be sharing home with another small 15 pound dog.

7. DO NOT WANT mali on gsd body. mali is too much high drive for me.

8. I want gsd that can relax indoors.

9. I DONT care if dog is aloof. i don't want lab in GSD body either. Not aggressive but not necessary waggy waggy tail to even cable guy who is in house.. hopefully that made sense.

SO IN SUMMARY: high food drive, med-high ball drive, medium energy. I will only be able to give him time in the morning and evening a bit, don't have time for HOURS of exercise.

QUESTION:
1. should i go for german show line or working Line?
2. whats the diff between WGWL / DDR/ Czech line ? (i hear czech is too high energy, and ddr has no food/ ball drive/ high pain tolerance, then how do u train them?? )?
3. Who are some of reputable breeders?

HEARING all above, what would you recommend and what breeder?

[carmspack]

I'll throw a question right back at you.

point # 4 -- why not select a dog bred for high trainability instead of going through the back door and creating training through feeding

The best dogs for trainability have a strong connection to the handler and a joy in working . They do not stress , they do not resent , they do not fail when the treats stop coming.

I find looking for a dog that suits a reward system so backward .

Find the dog who is interested, engaged, intelligent .


For your purposes there is no reason to rule out the american bred dog .

Instead of making your list so unnecessarily difficult narrow it down to a dog that is utterly stable and co-operative and able to adapt , look for evidence of longevity potentials .

on your mark get set ---- go

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

[Miss Molly May]

Start searching for a experienced and respected breeder in your area. Once found tell them exactly what you are looking for temperament, drive...... and the breeder will try a pup with you the best they can. Then it is all up to you!!

[wolfstraum]

Unfortunately, many people want a dog to suit their training style...got a nice nice male returned because he did not fit the training style by someone who trains with Joanne - dog is now titled, with very nice scores, and Joanne sends me updates when she sees or hears from Gottfried about the dog! And refers people to me....the dog has food drive, but was not doing well with the everything comes from trainers hand approach......if you get a pup, like Carmen says, you have to adapt your methods to what the pup will respond to the best! I have trained dogs whose ball drive is soooo high, and my dexiterity does not match! Many black and blue marks later, I go to food in self defense LOL

Biddablity - the dog wanting to work with you is more important than whether food or ball drive higher!

The right working line - the right showline.....it depends on the dog - not the type which will work better for you! I would say WL due to your stated level of training experience, as SL are not as resilient and happy in OB - IN GENERAL!!! And if you want to train in any venue, I would also say WL.....OB, agility, flyball, dock dogs.....all of these a balanced working line dog will do well in!

Stating where you are located may help in referring some breeders closer to you - or if you will ship

Lee

[Castlemaid]

I don't think the list is unreasonable - much better for someone to go into this knowing exactly what they want. I think a breeder or either show lines or working lines or DDR or other types that actively works and titles their own dogs so that they know exactly what drives they have and have not can fit the bill.

What area are you in? People can recommend breeders and you could go out and check out the dogs and see if any seem like a good fit for you. I wouldn't worry if the dog is West German, East German Czech, or from an other background, for your needs and wants you could find one that will work for you.

Food drive is nice to have - doesn't mean that you NEED food drive to train a dog, but it can make it more fun and rewarding. Thing is, that if a working-line, high drive dog does not have much food drive, then the next motivator to teach the dog is tug and prey drive - which can be too much for some people to deal with when trainning their dog. And for a pet dog, that will mostly be a companion for walks and fetch, working for food to learn new behaviours is how all pups are started out anyways, and later on weaned off the food and they will happily work just for the owner.

[robinhuerta]

Your expectations are what any *normal, sound GSD puppy should be*....from any bloodline....I don't see any "special" requirement.
Look, listen...then look, listen some more.
Contact breeders that you may be interested in....and (if you can) go meet their puppies and dogs.....
FWIW...JMO.

[neupane00]

i agree its the breed norm. but would the line make diff in if they are more like super active or medium active? I know its more of puppy to puppy within same litter are different. but i was thinking line would at least can help me find the norm for that line.

food-and-training. Guys, i totally agree.. i can adjust to puppys interest. And i can train dog with no food drive and big play drive.. or even correction. i can adapt but the point is the fav method is food. It makes the whole thing fun. And if i am getting a chance to pick and have time, why not choose type of dog personality that matches my training style. nothing wrong with that i think. if that doesn't work, i can always adapt to dog personality.

Sounds good guys, i am from NJ.. but not really limited to this area. for good dog, i am willing to travel long distance... now all this in mind.. recommend few breeders?

thanks again for all your input.

[Two]

Originally Posted by neupane00

Okay before i start writing paragraphs, let me be clear on who i am and what i am looking for .

1. Im very experienced dog owner and trained dogs. I HAVE NOT have any german shepherd in the past.

2. Looking for primarily a companion.

3. Will be giving my new gsd an hour walk every day. Play fetch ball. Medium- high ball drive

4. I primarily use food for training, so high food drive.

5. NO NOT WANT american show line - thats something i can rule out immediately.

6. Will be sharing home with another small 15 pound dog.

7. DO NOT WANT mali on gsd body. mali is too much high drive for me.

8. I want gsd that can relax indoors.

9. I DONT care if dog is aloof. i don't want lab in GSD body either. Not aggressive but not necessary waggy waggy tail to even cable guy who is in house.. hopefully that made sense.

SO IN SUMMARY: high food drive, med-high ball drive, medium energy. I will only be able to give him time in the morning and evening a bit, don't have time for HOURS of exercise.

QUESTION:
1. should i go for german show line or working Line?
2. whats the diff between WGWL / DDR/ Czech line ? (i hear czech is too high energy, and ddr has no food/ ball drive/ high pain tolerance, then how do u train them?? )?
3. Who are some of reputable breeders?

HEARING all above, what would you recommend and what breeder?

Some of your questions confused me, but that's ok. You say "I DO NOT WANT SLD" then you ask if you should get a WLD or SLD.

If you are experienced as you say you are, then you should know that not all dogs are going to be "identical" to their parents, or other puppies in the litter. Some puppies will have more drive than others, and that's normal. It seems like you are looking for the "perfect" dog, and that is mostly going to be all up to the training you put into him/her.

Good luck

[neupane00]

hey jimmy, i said i don't want "american show line".. the question i was referring to was "working line or german show line"...
i am semi experienced in dogs and training. BUT NO WHERE close to some guys in the forums. sorry, i didn't mean to come off as *know it all guy*.. need help. and will be greatly appreciated. and def agree jimmy, i do know puppies within litter being different

[Castlemaid]

As for whether show line or working line would suit you best due to the drives you are looking for, again I say it would go back to the breeder. What will be very important in finding the right pup for you is not so much the lines you want, but finding a breeder that has extensive experience in evaluating pups for their drives and temperament, and have extensive experience in placing them in the right home.

Even a breeding of high-drive working dogs can produce puppies that are in the low-medium drive range, and be perfectly suited for an active pet home. So more important than finding the right lines, finding the right breeder should take precedence. The important thing here is to get a breeder who works their own dogs, not just acquires dogs and goes on and on about their temperament, but has never so much as trained or titled a dog of their own. Through that kind of hands-on work, over time, is how a breeder really gets to know their lines, and gets to connect the puppy behaviours and personalities with the kind of drives and personality they will have later on.

Here is a good article about finding a good breeder. Since you are an experienced dog person, I'm sure some of this information will not be new to you, but still lots of good info here:
(German Shepherd Breeders, by Wildhaus Kennels)

and here:
Things to look for in a 'Responsible' Breeder


Actually, Carmen from Carmspack above would be a good person to contact. She is in Ontario, so maybe not that far from the NJ area.