Harrison K-9 or Canine Protection International (CPI)? - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

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Old 08-07-2011, 02:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Also, let me be clear about the training: I want a dog [probably 2] trained by an absolute expert that can train the dog into a top top notch dog. That said, I am willing to do the ongoing training as long as it doesn't involve me putting on a suit. I'd rather send the dog for yearly or quarterly training than do that myself. We all have skills that make us valuable, mine is not training animals, and I'm willing to pay someone who does have that skill set.
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:01 PM   #22 (permalink)
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So you like the working lines (all black), better than the typical black and reds (show lines)? Ok... we're getting somewhere.

I know there is a very highly regarded breeder who has responded in this thread already - "carmspack"... just go back to page 1. I personally don't know her dogs, but she definitely knows what she's talking about when it comes to dogs. Maybe visit her website or send her over a PM... she should be able to at least point you in the right direction.

Here's another recent thread discussing working line breeders:

working line breeders?

EDIT: Just saw that second post... I think I may have misunderstood exactly what you're looking for. Are you looking to get an already trained adult or young adult dog instead of a puppy? I'm just so used to people coming here asking for puppy recommendations... i'm confusing myself.

Last edited by Lucy Dog; 08-07-2011 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Central Alabama Schutzhund Club go watch these folks train and ask them lots of questions, they will be happy to answer. Its like asking Jay Leno about cars they are passionate and will talk all day about it. That is absolutely the most intelligent move you can make. I dont know them personally but they are training for and hosting a Schutzhund competition in November so they should be fairly knowledgable. It will be an excellent opportunity to see what it takes to handle a Sch3 dog.

Last edited by ed1911; 08-07-2011 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:17 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddilly View Post
You make a good point about the training. I just don't want to be one of those guys in the park in a padded suit with the dog biting me. Probably a na´ve concept of training but that's what I see in all of the videos.

As far as breed goes, that 2nd one down on the website looks good - German Shepherd Dog, German Working Lines. I think that's what I'd want. Solid black looks beautiful but temperament and physical performance are more important that anything.
Ok, the guy in the suit is doing the training in the bitework, he is the helper (or decoy, depending on the sport). I have been active in Schutzhund for most of my adult life, but have never put on a sleeve or taken a bite. That is a very specialized skill and takes years to become proficient, plus you have to be athletic and not a 5'4" girl like me . BUT, the handler (you) must also be educated in handling and directing the dog during the bitework. Usually the handler does the training in obedience, which only helps the relationship and control during high drive scenarios. It is not only a lot of fun, but very necessary if you plan to own and live with a dog who is trained in this discipline. It would be like getting a really great sports car but never learning how to drive it in anything other than a straight line at 10mph. When you are suddenly confronted with a curvy mountain road and the brakes are overheating, then you would really wish you'd learned how to handle the car in more difficult situations. If you are planning on getting a titled dog, then that is great, the dog hopefully learned the work from an experienced trainer and enjoys the work. This will make your job easier, you are just learning to drive a great car, you don't have to build it, so to speak. If you find a good club near you, you can keep up with your dog's training and learn to read and work with your dog on that level.
Now that you've possibly narrowed down your search to working line dogs then it will make your search easier. There are some great trainers, importers, breeders and clubs in the states, and there are plenty in the southeast so you don't have to search the world over if you don't want to.
Good luck in your search, and welcome to the wonderful world of working dogs!

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Last edited by bocron; 08-07-2011 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:15 PM   #25 (permalink)
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why 2...
at once?

just doubling your pleasure?

Somebody is going to have to learn how to handle the dog(s), or the dogs will be handling things, and usually that's not the safest way to go. Learning to handle dogs can be a long process. It's not hostility you hear, it's caution. Better to error on the side of safety. Doing two at once can be tough for an experienced handler. What one doesn't think of the other will, so things can spin out of control quicker than it might with just one.

No I didn't look at the sites...it doesn't matter how much they are, how long they were trained... unless you and your wife work enough with them to transfer control, it's not likely to be very wonderful. So while it may seem harsh, it's more about wanting to see success, because failure is not an outcome anyone is going to be happy about. Do more homework, realize it's a really huge commitment.

Don't worry about having to do helper work, although I really must say, it's very educational!
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:55 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy Dog View Post
EDIT: Just saw that second post... I think I may have misunderstood exactly what you're looking for. Are you looking to get an already trained adult or young adult dog instead of a puppy? I'm just so used to people coming here asking for puppy recommendations... i'm confusing myself.
I'm looking for a trained young adult.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dOg View Post
why 2...
at once?

just doubling your pleasure?

Somebody is going to have to learn how to handle the dog(s), or the dogs will be handling things, and usually that's not the safest way to go. Learning to handle dogs can be a long process. It's not hostility you hear, it's caution. Better to error on the side of safety. Doing two at once can be tough for an experienced handler. What one doesn't think of the other will, so things can spin out of control quicker than it might with just one.

No I didn't look at the sites...it doesn't matter how much they are, how long they were trained... unless you and your wife work enough with them to transfer control, it's not likely to be very wonderful. So while it may seem harsh, it's more about wanting to see success, because failure is not an outcome anyone is going to be happy about. Do more homework, realize it's a really huge commitment.

Don't worry about having to do helper work, although I really must say, it's very educational!
I want to so that they each have a friend and partner in crime. I also think it doesn't hurt to have double the protection and intimidation.

Thanks to everyone for the help so far. I will definitely check out the Central Alabama Schutzhund Club ASAP.

Last edited by Buddilly; 08-07-2011 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:38 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I can help you as I know someone..
PM me....

as long as the dog can do what they promise, it is priceless. Price should be the last thing on your mind.
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:05 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I can help you with an expertly trained young adult male dog, x rayed clean hips and elbows, extensively socialized , great in family and any public environment, clear and hard on bite .

This dog can go for family protection, and I provide dogs for executive, business protection all the time.
This dog can go for police work --- , can go for specialized scent detection.

The obedience is quick and accurate and freely offered . No pressure needed. No bribery needed .No handler aggression , no fear/flight/defense. Training NOT started with schutzhund rules and regulations and conditioning for trail . No sleeve happy .

Beautiful athletic dog.

And it is not tens of thousands -- that kind of stuff just bugs me to no end.
As I said before not necessary.

Be prepared to answer some questions yourself.

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Old 08-08-2011, 04:37 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Hello everyone..

I am Buddilly's girlfriend. Decided to join the forum to see if I could get some general questions of mine answered and clarify some of the characteristics we are looking for in a future dog. First off, I understand that Harrison K9 and CPI are NOT German Shepard breeders, but import their dogs from European breeders. I have gone to Harrison K9 in Aiken, SC and was really impressed with their operation and felt comfortable with their methods. BUT, I want to be well researched and educated before I make the commitment to a PPD. This is the start of my research, please understand that and be respectful.

The reasoning behind wanting to have two dogs is because we both travel a good bit. I personally drive long distances frequently (6-10 hours) and have to deal with stopping for gas, food, and to ensure that my horses are traveling well. As some of you might know, gas stations off the highway are not the safest place to be. I do conceal to carry but have been in situations were I can't devote all of my attention to my surroundings. Having two dogs makes sense in our situation so that when we separate, we both can have a dog with us.



What we are looking for in a PPD: (Trained Young Adult)

1. Obiedance (obviously). Yes, I am attracted to CPI's video of the guy walking in Boston with his dogs off the leash. I understand this may be an easier technique for a German Shepard to learn, but the skills I can't teach is the protection side. I am more that willing to provide continued training with the dog personally and professionally. I would actually like to be involved in the selection, and the initial training of the dog (even if I just sit and watch). Needless to say I WILL be involved.

2. Search a home or building before I enter. Alert me to any problems before I walk in.

3. Be my second pair of eyes while I am working outside and alert me to any possible threats (more advanced than the typical dog).

4. Understand the difference between the UPS man or friend versus a person with malicious intent approaching the property per my body language and communication with that person.

5. 99% of the time be a friendly companion, but in the moment where I truly need them, they will protect me. (Be aggressive enough to deter someone, but be able to snap in and out with command)

4. Be friendly with other dogs. Especially my current dogs.

5. Be able to acclimate to hot or cold climates.


Questions:

1. Does any one have experience working with CPI, or Harrison K9? Have you heard anything negative (other than the price of their dogs) that would be of importance? Any recommendations for other PPD trainers that don't have the fancy website, but a good solid reputation with reputable references.

2. Do any of you own other dogs beside your German Shepard? Do they get along. Both of my dogs are neutered and I assume our future dog will assume Alpha without any problems from my other pups.

3. Do any of you have problems with getting home owner's insurance? I know this depends on the agency but I have done some research and have found that some insurance companies will not insure you if you have a German Shepard, Rottweiler, Doberman, Pit Bull, etc.

4. What are the qualities that you have found to be most valuable in your dog? Both personality wise and protection. What are the most important qualities I should be looking for. What questions should I make sure to ask when interviewing a trainer.

5. I know that Harrison K9 uses positive reinforcement and does not hit or use physical contact in their training. CPI actually puts their dogs in situations where the attacker is fighting back using a folding chair or physical contact. Any insight into this?

6. What is the difference between a regular German Shepard (black and tan) versus an all black German Shepard? If any. What are the best lines that I should be looking out for.

7. Is a 24 month health guarantee sufficient?


I have trained horses all my life, I understand the trainer to animal relationship. I don't expect my novice friends to all of a sudden become experts (even in a few years time) in training a horse. Thus, I am not going to put the confidence in myself to train this dog alone if I am not going to be the absolute expert. I am more that willing to learn and continue the dogs training personally. To start off, I would prefer to have an expert train the dog.

If we can get a PPD for less than $50,000, by all means point us in the right direction! Take the price factor out of this equation and please just offer your personal experiences, and honest advice about owning a PPD.


Thank you so much for you help. I really appreciate it!
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:42 PM   #30 (permalink)
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spelling error..

german shepherd*******
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