Breeder warranty

[armauro]

How much validity do people put into these agreeements by breeders - obviously they are only as good as the breeder- was given one yesterday by a top usa sl breeder that only gteed hips for 15 months and no health gtees ie what about health issues epi,ibd etc.
When I ? them, their response was I am not the right customer for their kennel since I rely on paper more than their reputation yet their sketchy gteed had lawyers and arbitrators all over the document.
I personally do not need a gtee but when you are charging PREMIUM $$$ for pups- it is inconsistent not to back it up.
Just my opinion.

[wolfstraum]

No one plans on breeding bad dogs on purpose.

When someone breeds lots of litters, goes through the alphabet in a few years, and starts over again multiple times - they are pumping out alot of pups and are going to produce problems....

When priorities are not balanced - when one aspect becomes paramount - then others suffer....in Europe, health guarantees are NOT common - hips are a known risk, and it appears that many breeders will line breed or back mass on a NZ dog and accept that a large proportion of pups will develop HD, but winning in the ring is too high a priority to pass on a breeding pair that they think will give them show ring winners...the European buyers accept risks more readily when buying a puppy I think, and pups are pre checked before a year - bad hipped ones commonly do not get wakened, the buyer shrugs, and buys another pup for E600-800 and does not ask for a replacement (although I believe they are starting to do replacements there) ....Americans are more litigious, and even people looking for a $500 Sunday paper pup have heard enough about HD to ask if the pup is clear of HD...even if they don't know you can't certify with OFA until 2, they know that there is such a thing as a hip cert.

There is a certain amount of risk in buying ANY 8 week old pup from any breeder. Asking why a breeding has been done, what complementary and compensatory factors have been considered, and looking at the hip ratings/percentages in the pedigree are part of being an educated buyer.

Most breeders count on a home not wanting to return a pup when it fails OFA and the guarantee is lip service pretty much.

Lee

[Mrs.K]

was given one yesterday by a top usa sl breeder that only gteed hips for 15 months and no health gtees ie what about health issues epi,ibd etc.

You can only do pre-lims but OFA only certifies with two years so the guarantee is pretty much a joke.

[BlackthornGSD]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

You can only do pre-lims but OFA only certifies with two years so the guarantee is pretty much a joke.

I don't understand your logic. How does OFA certification age make the guarantee a joke?

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by BlackthornGSD

I don't understand your logic. How does OFA certification age make the guarantee a joke?

some people may not think about it and just wait till their dog is two years old to get the OFA certification only to realize that their guarantee is gone in the wind because they've been waiting five months too long.

If you give guarantee you might as well give to two years, when OFA certifies.

[middleofnowhere]

I have about three more months in which I can send my dog back for any reason. That's a two year policy written into the contract. The man has a good reputation.

[BlackthornGSD]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

some people may not think about it and just wait till their dog is two years old to get the OFA certification only to realize that their guarantee is gone in the wind because they've been waiting five months too long.

If you give guarantee you might as well give to two years, when OFA certifies.

I disagree. I'd like to know before 2 years if the hips look good--both for the sake of my breeding program and for the sake of the dog. If a person wants a certification, they can go with the SV "a" stamp program, which is done after 12 months.

It's very rare for a dog to show hip problems at 24 months that weren't apparent from xrays at 12 months.

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by BlackthornGSD

...........
It's very rare for a dog to show hip problems at 24 months that weren't apparent from xrays at 12 months.

I am of course not a vet, but not true according to the OFA as well as a lot of vets.

Esp. if the x-ray is the least bit questionable.

They all claim that there is a good risk of the hips and/or elbows getting worse.

Any hip gaurantee of less than 24 months is something that I would really question and if I have to question something about my breeder, they will not be my breeder!

just a thought!

[Ruthie]

Originally Posted by armauro

How much validity do people put into these agreeements by breeders - obviously they are only as good as the breeder- was given one yesterday by a top usa sl breeder that only gteed hips for 15 months and no health gtees ie what about health issues epi,ibd etc.
When I ? them, their response was I am not the right customer for their kennel since I rely on paper more than their reputation yet their sketchy gteed had lawyers and arbitrators all over the document.
I personally do not need a gtee but when you are charging PREMIUM $$$ for pups- it is inconsistent not to back it up.
Just my opinion.

I think it really depends on the situation. If you have a good breeder, they are going to stand by their dog regardless of what they put on paper.

The one dog I have with an issue, the breeder has been very supportive well beyond what their written guarantee stated. Would not hesitate in the least to get a dog from them again and to recommend them to others.

With another dog, it was a good old fashioned "hand shake" sort of thing. Maybe it is because I grew up in the country or maybe it is because I am naturally a trusting person, but this is enough for me.

If I were in a situation where I didn't know the breeder at all either personally or by word of mouth reputation, I would be much more concerned about a guarantee.

[cliffson1]

All German Shepherd breeders produce dysplastic dogs....I do not know of any breeder in the world that has dogs that will not produce dysplastic dogs. So how can you have a guarantee?????What are you guaranteeing???? The Europeans have this right(that's why by and large they have better dogs), and its another area where many American breeders let emotions cloud reality. People should be breeding for functional hips instead of diagnostic hips, but that's another story unto itself. If the diagnostic scores of the two dogs bred made that much difference, we wouldn't be at 20% HD for the past 30 years....think about it..... instead of regurgitating some statistical junk that hasn't moved the pendulum in past thirty years.