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Old 03-09-2011, 10:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Teeth View Post
. I would only pick a working line if I was doing police work, or nationally competitive Schutzhund.
I am glad you had a great experience , BUT there are many of us (and a lot on the forum) who do neither police work or nationally competitve schutzhund who have owned showlines and feel the working lines are really better dogs - in terms of structure (compared to german showlines) and temperament, and working ability.

I had no comment on the specific breeder because I have not bought a showline dog for over a decade.

I think the best advice is for the OP to meet and learn representatives from the different lines to make a decision.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:29 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Dr. Teeth: Well, people are entitled to their preference. Though as Nancy said, lots of people have working lines as family dogs and do neither high level Schutzhund nor police work, and their dog fit into their lifestyle seamlessly.

Mine was raised with small children around, and cuddles with my cats. Yet has the seriousness in Schutzhund that an international level competitor wanted to jokingly kidnap him and take him home.

Don't see why a well balanced working line wouldn't work?
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with a good working line, but a lot of people are outright shocked when they see how well a show dog can do the same things. The working dogs I have trained had a little more "natural edge" to them. Quicker to bark, quicker to bite, and possibly more stamina if it had been tested...the kind of thing you would value as a cop. The working lines were also a little quicker to make the jump from doing bitework as a game to bitework for real. The show dogs tended to turn the alert off a little quicker when the handler was relaxed. Pick what you want, but the notion that GSD showlines are pretty little things to be admired is absolutely false.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The OP indicated a desire for a working dog and not a showline.

I think several suggested to step back and LEARN about the variation in the breed. There are plenty of showlines and working lines people on the forum who get along just fine. No need to "defend" the showlines or downgrade the working lines.

The most stable dog I have every owned is my DDR/Czech male. Not reactive with a short fuse. Nice high thresholds. Best temperament I have ever seen on a dog. Safe dog. Very high drive dog with an off switch.

Not all working line dogs have short fuses I have seen a fair share of timid showlines. I am sure there are nice showline dogs just as there are stable not over-reactive working lines dogs. Some folks want to make the workinglines more sporty and others want solid working dogs so there is variation even there.

FWIW - I do SAR and I see more and more working line GSDs and very few showlines and our dogs have to be very level headed and not on the defense. At least on the East coast.....
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:52 AM   #25 (permalink)
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If I'm following the original post correctly, I believe someone is soliciting an opinion on Gunbil? a showline only breeder, and while there was a lot of practical information on where to get a working line in Canada, few answered the original post. Gunbil has awesome dogs. I'm only offering a pro showline opinion based on that specific breeder, and if you read my previous post I think it's positive toward working lines in general but acknowledges a purpose for choosing a working line.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:46 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Teeth View Post
If I'm following the original post correctly, I believe someone is soliciting an opinion on Gunbil? a showline only breeder, and while there was a lot of practical information on where to get a working line in Canada, few answered the original post. Gunbil has awesome dogs. I'm only offering a pro showline opinion based on that specific breeder, and if you read my previous post I think it's positive toward working lines in general but acknowledges a purpose for choosing a working line.

Because the OP seemed to be confused. They were interested in Gunbil, yet specifically said they wanted a working line dog. Since Gunbil isn't a working line breeder, then obviously people are going to steer them away from that since they are confused as to what kind of breeders they are looking at and most certainly would NOT be getting a working line dog from Gunbil.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:37 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I think showlines are great there is one reason why I am kind of shying away from them, it is not the case with all but I see a majority of these showline gsd have a slightly too sloped of a back when standing up straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Teeth View Post
The working dogs I have trained had a little more "natural edge" to them. Quicker to bark, quicker to bite, and possibly more stamina if it had been tested...the kind of thing you would value as a cop.
Thats why I am leaning towards the working line, those are the kinds of things I value in a dog, on the surface a dog should be happy go lucky wagging its tale always ready to play with its favorite toy but at its core a true gsd needs that 'natural edge' otherwise I might as well get myself a poodle

I've been reading up on GSD DDR and well I'm impressed, I definitely want to adopt a 'Working Line DDR GSD' most likely a female and hopefully from Carmspack who I will keep in touch with,
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:39 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I think these post have brought out some good opinions. I will say that before anyone trys to purchase a dog out of state or out of country, you will be better off with a local breeder, where you can see the parents, see the facility, and test the puppy yourself. I would apply that to showline or working line.

As some of the posts have mentioned, temperment of show vs work, temperment is not defined is fair, good, excellent, etc. - Temperment is "correct" or it's " not correct ". Any GSD that that displays a "not correct" temperment should never be breed or even trained in sport. And my comment on working lines"...quicker to bark, quicker to bite.." refers to when they were first asked to perform that task by their handlers... a very subtle difference.

"A too much sloping back"- If you see "too much" this is a fault. But it's referred to as angulation and it has a correct or incorrect angle. Angulation by itself does not indicate poor hips. It was in many cases American breeders in the 1970's who failed to breed to the German standard, agressively seeking a "low" back end which caused the problems. This is why pure German dogs have been seen as healthier. They are angled correctly and bred only when hips have been tested for generations.
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:52 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Cheza happens to LIVE in Ontario.......

Been around enough to hear major arguments between German Showlines and Workinglines folks to know that the standard is and has been interpreted differently. Unlike Cheza I have met enough of the types to KNOW what I want. Probably something Cheza needs to do a little more research on and I believe is going to happen.
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:54 PM   #30 (permalink)
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My 2 new books just arrived in the mail,

chapters.indigo.ca: The German Shepherd Today: Winifred Gibson Strickland, James A. Moses: Books

and

chapters.indigo.ca: German Shepherds For Dummies: D. Caroline Coile: Books

Great!
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