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Old 06-04-2014, 01:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Need help with my Chi

Hey y'all! I have a Chi-mix that's about a year and a half, is neutered, housetrained, SMART, knows several commands. Problem is that he has a dominant personality and goes through stages every 6-8 weeks where he'll gradually start challenging me. It starts with small infractions, taking longer to actually sit when asked, to ignoring me when asked to sit, and finally actually leaving when asked to sit. When this starts, I don't give in, I keep at him until he does what I asked. He's bitten me when I've reached to get him out of the kennel, bitten my daughter for getting to close to 'his' spot on the couch, he growls at her often, doesn't listen to anyone but me (only b/c I've come down pretty hard on him for disobeying), yes, I alpha rolled him after he bit me. That is the ONLY thing that has ever put him back on track, even for a few weeks before he back at it again.

I'm really frustrated. I've asked the Chi people about it and am not getting a lot of solid advice about how to enforce rules with my dominant Chi. I'm scared to even post this here b/c of the nastiness that ensued from the Chi folks. With that said, if you think I'm just mean or abusive or evil, please just don't comment. Please! It doesn't help me do better. Constructive criticism is fine and warranted. Please, no bashing.

So, I want to ask you guys who deal with bigger dogs where physical domination isn't always an option but that still have to have rules and training and it's second nature to expect these from your dog.

How would a dominant personality be handled with your dogs?
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Hardcore NILIF, there's no excuse for such bad behaviour regardless of size. I have the same expectations of my 12 lb poodle as I do my GSD, obedience and manners are non-negotiable.

Look into getting a trainer that can help set boundaries and rules and then you need to enforce them with consistency. Being firm doesn’t mean you have to be mean, but it sounds like he needs to earn privileges back like sitting on the couch only after he’s been invited on. Make him do obedience like a sit before he gets fed
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Agree with Shanna, I expect no less from my Chihuahua as I do my Shepherds, he gets the same training as them and gets the same rewards and privileges as them.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for the replies. I'm interested in more about the NILIF method.

I also want to say that I am absolutely uncomfortable with my actions with him- the alpha rolling. I just don't want to take that route. I am obviously lacking skills here so I need help in that area. Consistency is a challenge for me. I find that I have to adjust to his new behaviors and it seems I'm always changing the rules to compensate for his behavior. I think the problem may be that I'll come down on him pretty hard for a while, then let up some - and that probably sets the whole ball in motion again.

I'll consider a trainer in the meantime.

What do you do with your dogs when they just don't listen? I hate the escalation and tension and the final outcome being a negative reinforce that works for a few weeks before he's right back at it. This is a dog that is just determined to try to dominate. I sometimes call him The Tiny Usurper.

I have heard of some folks that do an entire feeding session with commands and morsels. That seems like a viable option, but I want to know more about how the whole system of NILIF first.

Do any of you know of some good training threads or resources? I may not be able to afford a trainer for a while.
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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If the dog misbehaves then they lose a privilege. So if Jazzy growls at Delgado for doing nothing but climbing up on the couch she gets put down on the floor immediately. Clear consequences, to be on the couch she has to behave and share without fussing. Same thing with Delgado, if he finishes his treat first and bugs Jazzy while she's still eating hers he is sent away out of the room. He lost the privilege of being nearby by ignoring a long standing rule of no bugging other dogs while they are eating.

It doesn't have to be all negative, be ready to reward every good thing that you see as well. For instance, reward eye contact, reward heavily when he obeys a command right away, have him on a leash tethered to you and reward as he follows you around. You become the 'bringing of ALL good things' as I call in (I personally don't like the term alpha) and the dogs will all look to you as they know if they behave they get rewards of attention, praise, toys, treats - these all are earned by good behaviour from you!
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My Pack:

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Koda & Zazu - 5 year old male cats
Alex - Male Cocker Spaniel (rescue) - RIP Cuddlebug 2007-2010
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Here's a good website explaining NILIF, you can also use the search bar to search for more information here on the forum

Nothing in Life is Free

Undesirable behavior can be caused by many things, including undetected illness. No behavior modification program should begin without first taking the dog to a veterinarian for a complete physical examination. While you're there, give your vet a printed copy of this page and ask if it would be an appropriate technique for you to try. The NILIF program is an accepted standard in dog training/behavior but it is not, and is not intended to be, a substitute for an in-person, professional evaluation of your dog's behavior. This technique is intended for dogs in good health and of sound mind and stable temperament.
The NILIF program is remarkable because it's effective for such a wide variety of problems. A shy, timid dog becomes more relaxed knowing that he has nothing to worry about, his owner is in charge of all things. A dog that's pushing too hard to become "top dog" learns that the position is not available and that his life is far more enjoyable without the title.

It is equally successful with dogs that fall anywhere between those two extremes. The program is not difficult to put into effect and it's not time consuming if the dog already knows a few basic obedience commands. I've never seen this technique fail to bring about a positive change in behavior, however, the change can be more profound in some dogs than others. Most owners use this program in conjunction with other behavior modification techniques such as coping with fear or treatment for aggression. It is a perfectly suitable technique for the dog with no major behavior problems that just needs some fine tuning.

ATTENTION ON DEMAND
The program begins by eliminating attention on demand. When your dog comes to you and nudges your hand, saying "pet me! pet me!" ignore him. Don't tell him "no", don't push him away. Simply pretend you don't notice him. This has worked for him before, so don't be surprised if he tries harder to get your attention. When he figures out that this no longer works, he'll stop. In a pack situation, the top ranking dogs can demand attention from the lower ranking ones, not the other way around. When you give your dog attention on demand you're telling him that he has more status in the pack than you do. Timid dogs become stressed by having this power and may become clingy. They're never sure when you'll be in charge so they can't relax. What if something scary happens, like a stranger coming in the house? Who will handle that? The timid dog that is demanding of attention can be on edge a lot of the time because he has more responsibility than he can handle.


Some dogs see their ability to demand attention as confirmation that they are the "alpha", then become difficult to handle when told to "sit" or "down" or some other demand is placed on them. It is not their leadership status that stresses them out, it's the lack of consistency. They may or may not actually be alpha material, but having no one in the pack that is clearly the leader is a bigger problem than having the dog assume that role full time. Dogs are happiest when the pack order is stable. Tension is created by a constant fluctuation of pack leadership.

EXTINCTION BURSTS
Your dog already knows that he can demand your attention and he knows what works to get that to happen. As of today, it no longer works, but he doesn't know that yet. We all try harder at something we know works when it stops working. If I gave you a twenty dollar bill every time you clapped your hands together, you'd clap a lot. But, if I suddenly stopped handing you money, even though you were still clapping, you'd clap more and clap louder. You might even get closer to me to make sure I was noticing that you were clapping. You might even shout at me "Hey! I'm clapping like crazy over here, where's the money?". If I didn't respond at all, in any way, you'd stop. It wasn't working anymore. That last try -- that loud, frequent clapping is an extinction burst. If, however, during that extinction burst, I gave you another twenty dollar bill you'd be right back in it. It would take a lot longer to get you to stop clapping because you just learned that if you try hard enough, it will work.

When your dog learns that the behaviors that used to get him your attention don't work any more he's going to try harder and he's going to have an extinction burst. If you give him attention during that time you will have to work that much harder to get him turned around again. Telling him "no" or pushing him away is not the kind of attention he's after, but it's still attention. Completely ignoring him will work faster and better.

YOU HAVE THE POWER
As the human and as his owner you have control of all things that are wonderful in his life. This is the backbone of the NILIF program. You control all of the resources. Playing, attention, food, walks, going in and out of the door, going for a ride in the car, going to the dog park. Anything and everything that your dog wants comes from you. If he's been getting most of these things for free there is no real reason for him to respect your leadership or your ownership of these things. Again, a timid dog is going to be stressed by this situation, a pushy dog is going to be difficult to handle. Both of them would prefer to have you in charge.

To implement the NILIF program you simply have to have your dog earn his use of your resources. He's hungry? No problem, he simply has to sit before his bowl is put down. He wants to play fetch? Great! He has to "down" before you throw the ball. Want to go for a walk or a ride? He has to sit to get his lead snapped on and has to sit while the front door is opened. He has to sit and wait while the car door is opened and listen for the word (I use "OK") that means "get into the car". When you return he has to wait for the word that means "get out of the car" even if the door is wide open. Don't be too hard on him. He's already learned that he can make all of these decisions on his own. He has a strong history of being in control of when he gets these resources. Enforce the new rules, but keep in mind that he's only doing what he's been taught to do and he's going to need some time to get the hang of it all.

You're going to have to pay attention to things that you probably haven't noticed before. If you feed your dog from your plate do you just toss him a green bean? No more. He has to earn it. You don't have to use standard obedience commands, any kind of action will do. If your dog knows "shake" or "spin around" or "speak" use those commands. Does your dog sleep on your bed? Teach him that he has to wait for you to say "OK" to get on the bed and he has to get down when you say "off". Teach him to go to his bed, or other designated spot, on command. When he goes to his spot and lays down tell him "stay" and then release him with a treat reward. Having a particular spot where he stays is very helpful for when you have guests or otherwise need him out of the way for a while. It also teaches him that free run of the house is a resource that you control. There are probably many things that your dog sees as valuable resources that I haven't mentioned here.

The NILIF program should not be a long, drawn out process. All you need to do is enforce a simple command before allowing him access to what he wants. Dinner, for example, should be a two or three second encounter that consists of nothing more than saying "sit", then "good dog!", then putting the bowl down and walking away.

ATTENTION AND PLAY
Now that your dog is no longer calling the shots you will have to make an extra effort to provide him with attention and play time. Call him to you, have him "sit" and then lavish him with as much attention as you want. Have him go get his favorite toy and play as long as you both have the energy. The difference is that now you will be the one initiating the attention and beginning the play time. He's going to depend on you now, a lot more than before, to see that he gets what he needs. What he needs most is quality time with you. This would be a good time to enroll in a group obedience class. If his basic obedience is top notch, see about joining an agility class or fly ball team.

NILIF DOES *NOT* MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO RESTRICT THE AMOUNT OF ATTENTION YOU GIVE TO YOUR DOG. The NILIF concept speaks to who initiates the attention (you!), not the amount of attention. Go ahead and call your dog to you 100 times a day for hugs and kisses!! You can demand his attention, he can no longer demand yours!

Within a day or two your dog will see you in a whole new light and will be eager to learn more. Use this time to teach new things, such as 'roll over' or learn the specific names of different toys.

If you have a shy dog, you'll see a more relaxed dog. There is no longer any reason to worry about much of anything. He now has complete faith in you as his protector and guide. If you have a pushy dog he'll be glad that the fight for leadership is over and his new role is that of devoted and adored pet.



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My Pack:

Jasmine - Female Miniature Poodle - born Aug 15, 2010
Loker Delgado Von Stalworth - Male GSD - born Jan 26, 2012
Koda & Zazu - 5 year old male cats
Alex - Male Cocker Spaniel (rescue) - RIP Cuddlebug 2007-2010
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thank you SO much!!

Seeing how the physical dominating makes me feel, I definitely need something softer. I hate the way I was handling things.
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A girl and her dog View Post
Consistency is a challenge for me. I find that I have to adjust to his new behaviors and it seems I'm always changing the rules to compensate for his behavior.
I shall not repeat what Shanna said as it was said perfectly!

I will say, however, that consistency IS KEY. I can be hard especialya t first, but it is essential to training. From what you said, you are adjusting to his behaviors.. meaning he is calling the shots. Stick with what you choose to do, whether it's NILIF or another training technique, stick with it. He will get the idea that this is how it is and it isn't going to change. Right now he knows that if he just changes a few things. You will adapt to him.

Also, I would amp up the OB during the day. Make it fun for your Chi but definitely have more sessions during the day.. this will also reform the bond and trust with you dog
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyoung2153 View Post
...From what you said, you are adjusting to his behaviors.. meaning he is calling the shots. Stick with what you choose to do, whether it's NILIF or another training technique, stick with it. He will get the idea that this is how it is and it isn't going to change. Right now he knows that if he just changes a few things. You will adapt to him.

Also, I would amp up the OB during the day. Make it fun for your Chi but definitely have more sessions during the day.. this will also reform the bond and trust with you dog

Wyoung, thank you!! I had not thought about how he might see my adjusting as his calling the shots even if my adjusting is stricter. Well, you didn't say stricter- do you think that applies as well? Maybe in the sense of seeing me as unstable therefore vulnerable?

Thanks for the reinforcement to stick with whatever it is. In the article above 'extinction burst' is mentioned and that's something I didn't know about. I can now be more prepared instead of thinking that what I'm doing isn't working.

Y'all are a wealth of info and good advice. Thanks so much! I'll try to update as we go.

-Today, he's a great boy and very happy. We ran errands all morning and spent a while outside. I'm going back to doing regular daily OB sessions as well, like Wyounger suggested, and probably twice a day.

I really like the NILIF technique and it is something I think will serve both dogs well.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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NILIF is great. Sounds like he needs to understand that humans control resources AND that humans = GOOD. Having to constantly correct him for bad behavior doesn't give him any reasons to want to comply or not use his own methods to get his way the next time. I would take away a LOT of his freedom, I don't care how old he is I would start treating him like a brand new puppy again and let him learn that freedom, toys, treats, etc all come from YOU so he wants to respect YOU because you're awesome, not because he wants to avoid a correction or is forced to comply.
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