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martemchik 12-15-2013 11:14 PM

Personal Protection Dogs
 
Alright...so a bunch of new threads about training personal protection dogs has got me thinking. How many members could imagine owning a PPD? How many members believe that a PPD would really provide the protection they need from whatever threat they believe is out there? Do you guys believe that the cost/benefit is worth it (either if you train your own dog, or if you purchase one for what I've read is a five figure price tag)?

It's my opinion that the work necessary to get a truly solid/reliable PPD would not be worth the protection you're going to get out of that dog. My opinion comes from living in some pretty high crime areas and never actually witnessing a crime in my short time here on this earth. I'm not sure what the cost is of raising/training a PPD is, but it has to be up there. I know people don't generally put a value on their own time, but if someone did, I'd really be interested to know what the economic cost of a PPD is.

I've really been questioning the definition of a PPD and the type of protection people think they need/the dog can provide. Many times, I believe just having a GSD will provide all the protection the household needs. If a large dog isn't enough deterrent enough for the threat, the threat is probably ready to deal with the dog in whatever way possible. I mean, I just don't get what people expect from a dog trained to do harm to a human in a PPD type role. I feel like if your untrained dog has the right temperament, it will probably do the role just fine, and a bonus on top of that would be some sort of bite sport training if you really want to guarantee knowing how your dog would react. I also know that training your dog in bite work, or as a PPD, really increases your liability and pretty much destroys any defense you might have in the court of law if that dog ever bites the wrong thing (a child, an extended family member, just a person passing by). Knowing the broad range dog instructors there are with varying experience and ability, I can't imagine that every single person claiming to train PPD dogs is going to be doing it at the highest possible level.

By the way...this is more of an educational discussion. Just to see the varying opinions out there on this subject. That's why I posted it in the chat room and not under the actual PPD section of the forum.

angelas 12-15-2013 11:23 PM

Here's the rub with PPDs. They can only protect you if they are with you, right? So how many places can you take them with you?

Baillif 12-15-2013 11:37 PM

If I bought a dog for it then put in the time and effort to train it and bond with it and maintain that training there is not a chance I'd put it into a situation where the dog could get seriously hurt or killed. I'd rather buy a gun.

erfunhouse 12-15-2013 11:52 PM

My guns are all the protection I need. I will protect my dog. He is my early warning system, that's all.

alexg 12-15-2013 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erfunhouse (Post 4677746)
My guns are all the protection I need. I will protect my dog. He is my early warning system, that's all.

^^^^This!

David Winners 12-16-2013 12:03 AM

There are different types of training for PPDs. Some alert to perceived threats and give an aggressive display. Some are trained to assess threats on their own and bite when they feel it's necessary. Some only bite on command. Some are trained on long bites, others never leave the handler. Some live with just their handler. Some with a family. There is a lot of planning that goes on when building a PPD, whatever version you choose.

First you need the right dog. Totally stable, social, biddable, with balanced drives. Good luck there. You better be getting your dog from a short list of breeders, and hope that you get a great dog.

Second, you need the right socialization and foundation training while they are puppies.

Third, you need a trainer and group of decoys with the equipment and understanding of how to train the dog, the money / time to pay for that training, and the ability to learn to handle a PPD.

And you also need to learn how to assess threats yourself, while in public, while handling the dog.

Soldiers that have been down range, in multiple firefights, who are great leaders of men in combat, fail to become handlers every day.


And to address the "gun is better than a dog" argument; my dog saved my life twice, and I was with 28 guys who all had weapons in their hands and were expecting trouble. Your senses can't begin to compare.

David Winners

Blitzkrieg1 12-16-2013 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Winners (Post 4677794)
There are different types of training for PPDs. Some alert to perceived threats and give an aggressive display. Some are trained to assess threats on their own and bite when they feel it's necessary. Some only bite on command. Some are trained on long bites, others never leave the handler. Some live with just their handler. Some with a family. There is a lot of planning that goes on when building a PPD, whatever version you choose.

First you need the right dog. Totally stable, social, biddable, with balanced drives. Good luck there. You better be getting your dog from a short list of breeders, and hope that you get a great dog.

Second, you need the right socialization and foundation training while they are puppies.

Third, you need a trainer and group of decoys with the equipment and understanding of how to train the dog, the money / time to pay for that training, and the ability to learn to handle a PPD.

And you also need to learn how to assess threats yourself, while in public, while handling the dog.

Soldiers that have been down range, in multiple firefights, who are great leaders of men in combat, fail to become handlers every day.


And to address the "gun is better than a dog" argument; my dog saved my life twice, and I was with 28 guys who all had weapons in their hands and were expecting trouble. Your senses can't begin to compare.

David Winners

Lets not forget less likely to land you in jail or end up killing someone I find that argument foolish.

Gretchen 12-16-2013 12:19 AM

martemchik - I am with you on this one. Every time I see a thread for PPD I just cringe.
I want my dog to know I am capable of protecting her, I know she is always vigilant and now I feel we have good teamwork going. There are so many other options for personal protection. Besides just having a dog, any dog that will bark and alert, a good video and alarm systems, taser, taking a personal protection class and of course something more lethal.

Jack's Dad 12-16-2013 12:21 AM

And to address the "gun is better than a dog" argument; my dog saved my life twice, and I was with 28 guys who all had weapons in their hands and were expecting trouble. Your senses can't begin to compare.

David Winners[/QUOTE]

I'm glad someone finally said this. Someone who knows.
I'm amazed at the number of people who think they are safe just because they are packing. A concealed weapon permit isn't a license.

martemchik 12-16-2013 12:25 AM

I guess I have a hard time with accepting that a PPD is worth it. I've lived in some dangerous areas, and I will never again live in an area like that. Truthfully, I never expect to put myself or my family in a situation where a gun or a dog trained for protection is necessary to keep them safe. I personally don't believe guns are necessary for any type of personal protection (again I've never felt unsafe enough to need one) but if I just look at the cost/benefit of a PPD or a gun...a gun seems much more effective.

And like baillif kind of said, once you sink thousands into a dog, do you really want that dog to risk its life?

I get what you're saying David, you've been in some crazy situations, but is that really a normal or expected occurrence for your average American citizen? If I ever find myself with 28 people attacking me with weapons...I've made more than one wrong turn.

So the question then is, is it worth the time and money training something that won't really be used for that? Are some people just way too paranoid and think they need something that they truly don't? How many people out there want a deterrent but for some reason decide that they want to go into unnecessary bite work?


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