How to get someone to see the big picture..

[carmspack]

The phone call you will ultimately make is NOT your call to make. Does this entail calling the respective authorities to pull her licence? b/c calling the cops is not yours as this has nothing to do with you"

GatorBytes , I will have to disagree with you totally -

To not call is totally neglegent . Even teachers are mandated to repeat suspicions of abuse or neglect whether through something said or signs of stress , changes in behaviour, bruises.

disagree with this "Here's the scenario playing out in my head - you make the call - drugs are found in her house, she looses her home, her daughter, her business, her income, the guy - goes to jail if drugs are found...she hits rock bottom "
Or alternate scenario - she can't be victimized for turning the guy in because the call you would place is confidential - the source of a complaint is never revealed . She , may be grateful to be rid of the low life, keep her home , her business , her family , get a new start . This is not her doing or her problem so she is not penalized . The guy will have to take the consequences . She is probably afraid to call authorities for fear of retribution and would be thankful for someone to do so, then co-operate when she has support from social services , and law enforcement .

on this "If your friend is not listening to you and you cannot condone or respect her for her choices - you can do two things...
1) you can take her to get counselling - such as meetings for family's of addicts (like alcoholic annoymous - there is groups for family members who are live with alcoholics)...you can also bring here to see a social worker or other, who can help her through her addiction to this man adn get to the root issue as to why she cannot let go and build her self estem to do so - Cognative Behavioural Therapy..."

NO YOU CANNOT . Changes in the mental health act state that professional services can only be initiated by the person who needs it , which is horrible when the person is mentally ill (why we have people with mental issues sleeping on the street on vents!!!) . Basically the person needs to be caught in a moment of distress where he is likely to injure himself or someone else and then he will be taken to a hospital for psych evaluation , and then under Dr's care have treatment started .

The same thing goes for A A -- .

It is a safety measure so that like some foreign countries (years past) you are not mysteriously spirited away in the dead of night to some gulag , but it has gone FAR too much in the opposite where people desparately needing help and incapable of being willing or rational or connected enough to ask for help themselves are denied .

[MichaelE]

As has been said, she is going to have to make the call unless you can prove he had/has drugs on his person while in contact with the children she watches.

She is also being mentally abused and manipulated. That alone right there is grounds for the call even if you can't prove the drug issue.

The problem is her.

She is in denial about her options and will not act on what she knows is the right course of action.

[Kyleigh]

Courtney, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend, and the troubles she is facing.

You've received some good information / advice here, and the only thing I would caution is that if YOU call and report him to the RCMP, SHE might also get caught in the "net" if there are drugs found in a "common" area of the house (i.e. kitchen, living room, the master bedroom they share). As a former LEO in Ottawa, ON I can guarantee you that she will be implicated as well if drugs are found in a common area, if reported by an anonymous phone call. She will then get charged / maybe convicted, and then she'll never get to have a license to do her daycare again.

As for helping her, honestly, there is only so much you can do. A very very long time ago, I was your friend (minus the children, and minus my own business in my home). At the time I "loved" the "bad boy" that I was with ... the whole image was fascinating (I was 18 to put into some sort of context). It took me losing absolutely EVERYTHING before I woke up and came to my senses. The police were at our house at least monthly ... I never laid assault charges on him, b/c it would only have made the situation worse, and back then, the police didn't have the law they have now - charge him anyway if there's proof. I lived like that for 5.5 years. There is "SOMETHING" about him that your friend loves, and wants to see again, and is living for the hope that it will ressurect in him again.

Until she realizes that it's GONE and GONE for good ... and she's not losing more than she's willing to (women in these situations are amazing rationalizers ... I was one of the best) then she will stay with him.

It absolutely sucks to be her friend right now ... my best friend of over 30 years stayed on the "fringes" of my life when I was with my b/f at that time, and she said it was horrifying to watch me throw everything away for him. She just hoped and prayed that one day I would wake up and smell the coffee. Thankfully, I did, and I was still young enough to put my life back on track and move forward.

Hugs to you for being there for her, and I hope she comes to her senses soon.

[Freestep]

How old is your friend?

If she's in her twenties, she *should* eventually outgrow the "bad boy" thing she's got going on, if she has any sense. When I was in my twenties, I had a couple of abusive relationships--leaving the last one was one of the hardest things I ever had to do, but once done, it absolutely cured me of ever wanting a "bad boy" again.

I was lucky not to have had any children involved, but your friend needs to lose the "bad boy" thing for her daughter's sake, if nothing else. I am sure that she knows this, and yet she is still vulnerable to his bad-boy "charms". It's fairly typical for younger women, but if she breaks the cycle NOW, she can get on with her life and things can only get better. Sadly, some people have to hit rock bottom before they can do this.

You are a good friend to her, but other than talking to her honestly and telling her how much you care about her and her daughter, and how worried you are, there is little you can actually do for her--she needs to do it herself. Let her know you will be there to support her every step of the way if she gets rid of this chump.

Perhaps the only way to break the cycle is to get this bad-boy where he belongs--in jail. If he is doing drugs, it's only a matter of time before he gets caught with them. If you know his whereabouts and his illegal dealings, you might be able to help facilitate his arrest, but it will be a very delicate and tricky thing to do, and no one can ever know you had anything to do with his getting caught or it could backfire on you.

[Jax08]

Originally Posted by gaia_bear

... but lately I don't know how to help her.

Some background: She's been dating this "lowlife" of a guy off and on since she was 14. He's struggled with addiction and has been to rehab 2x. They have an adorable 3.5 year old, who's too smart for her own good. About a year ago he made the decision to start using again. In the past 6 months, he's stolen about 10K from her business (she runs a daycare) and has started bringing the drugs into her home.

Originally Posted by gaia_bear

It's a licensed day care w/ employees, inspections the whole nine yards. She runs it out of her house but is seperate from the living area, upstairs/downstairs type thing.

I've been toying around with calling social services but...

Really? There is no "but"s....this woman is allowing a person to bring drugs into a home where not only her very young child is, but also where she is taking on the responsibility of other children.

I don't even know how this could be a "discussion"...what is there to discuss? This is no longer about her...but it is all about the children.

[4TheDawgies]

coming from someone who was in a relationship with someone emotionally and mentally abusive. It is HARD to see when it is happening to you.

Maybe you could sit her down and point out the detrimental effects this could have on her child. She may only be 3.5 now, but as the child gets old things will begin to come to light and she will recognize he weight of the crimes this man is committing.

I don't think she will end this on her own. I think she is seeking your help because she knows she cannot do this on her own. Offer your support, anything you can or are willing to give to help this scenario. She needs you most in this time.
Maybe you can get a plan of action in place, where she will go when this happens, how to strategically work out the business to either keep it alive to keep her afloat, or to let everyone down nicely. Something has to change. IMO that man needs to go to prison. He has not changed, he won't change. after 5 years of sober he comes back into this garbage again.

He takes care of some sort of empty space in her. He is doing something for her. Even if it is just the fact that he is the blood of her daughter.

But the fact of the matter remains. These children, her child, and your friend are in danger. The reference of a tinder box ready to light is a perfect way to put this.

I needed the help of my friends to discover how sick and twisted the person that I was dating was. I loved him. When you love someone you will twist and contort the world to make things fit. I don't know if she does love him, but love makes people do crazy things. Having a child with someone (for some people at least) grows a bond with someone you cannot grow with someone else. She may be keeping him around for her daughters safety.

Honestly, it's better to not have a father at all, then to have daddy problems because the childs father was a total scum bag.
I've seen the daddy problems from crap dads sticking around, I've seen the light that those children find when their mother dates or marries a better man. It may not be biological but that child now has the opportunity to learn from a better person.

This cannot continue.
If he was recreation-ally smoking pot like a hippie, that's one thing. Whether someone finds that right or wrong is on such a lower level. Regardless it has no place in a child raising facility. But this man is doing hard drugs. He is addicted.

I would say a sit down with her to help her see the severity of the situation, work out a plan for how she can get out as smoothly and safely as possible with her child, and put that man where he needs to go.

[Stevenzachsmom]

Originally Posted by Jax08

Really? There is no "but"s....this woman is allowing a person to bring drugs into a home where not only her very young child is, but also where she is taking on the responsibility of other children.

I don't even know how this could be a "discussion"...what is there to discuss? This is no longer about her...but it is all about the children.

I completely agree with Michelle. The children are the most important people in this situation.

[JakodaCD OA]

I also agree, the children being most important. What if he decides to go "postal" in a drug induced haze?

If I were a parent and my child was in that daycare I would want to know, and I'd be raising holey you know what..

I'm sorry for your friend, but her child, the daycare children and herself are what's important..

[gaia_bear]

Thanks for the feedback...I really needed some outside perspectives to make sure I was going down the right path and not over reacting. If it was just her and there were no children involved, I'd be taking a different course of action.

We're going out for dinner tomorrow night, I plan to go armed with an action plan to give her the next steps and what she needs to think about/consquences of her actions etc. Also, what I'm able and willing to do.

My last update from her today was that the cops are there as he refused to leave, but if history repeats itself he'll be back in a couple of days. Being a normal work day with 25% of her parents are involved with law enforcement, it's a small town..news is going to travel fast and she's going to have to prepare herself to answer some questions.

[PatchonGSD]

Originally Posted by carmspack

I don't know what regulations you have as far as running a daycare , in home. In Ontario to do so there are regulations as to the number of children per adult caretaker , background checks for criminal charges for owner and employees.

THIS "In the past 6 months, he's stolen about 10K from her business (she runs a daycare) and has started bringing the drugs into her home." is a big concern . Drugs may be within reach of the kids -- the man might have episodes of anger , irrational thinking , and bring in who knows what kind of other undesireable types , putting the kids in harms way .

If you know this to be a fact I would mention it to some authority , police or childrens aide -- this is a tinder box waiting for the match .

I could not agree with this post more. I would fear for the safety of the children. I'm sorry you are going through this.