Horrible news

[wink-_-wink]

Originally Posted by selzer

I have no problem with making it a felony for anyone who has been convicted of a felony to possess a gun. I think felons forfeit many rights when the do the things that got them in trouble.

In many places it is illegal for a convicet felon to have a firearm in their possession!

But the only way to actually restrict guns on the whole would be to march from dwelling to dwelling, search and seize all weapons.

Remember when they outlawed alcohol during the prohibition. The same thing would happen! There would be gun smugglers and runners and bad people would still get their hands on them. The only difference is there wouldn't be any good semaratins armed to help out!

A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone....

[wink-_-wink]

Originally Posted by Liesje

Problem is though, someone can be a law abiding *until* they blast other people with their gun. Hindsight is 20/20. Gun crimes (and not these sensationalistic ones the national news focuses on) are not exclusively committed by people who have criminal history and warrants out for their arrested and have stolen or obtained their guns illegally.

Everyone can tell my stand on this topic by reading the threads BUT i have to agree with you on this one point. In the Aurora CO movie theater (batman) shooting, that man obtained every weapon he had on him LEGALLY! He even bought a ticket to the movie! Everything (with the exception to killing people) that he did was legal!

[Cassidy's Mom]

Originally Posted by Lilie

There is an inherit responsibility to those who have chosen to LEGALLY carry a weapon. That responsibility isn't taken lightly.

Respectfully, I don't think you can make that generalization. Just because you and the people you know feel that way does not mean that everyone does.

[TommyB681]

Originally Posted by wink-_-wink

A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone....

WELL SAID!!!! But we are also fish from the same pond

[selzer]

Originally Posted by wink-_-wink

COnsidering this was pointed at me I will gladly address it. It is not that I am John Wayne or a super hero. The one thing you did get right is my expert marksmanship. I have shot Expert EVERY SINGLE TIME I qualify with a weapon system (M-16, M-14, 9mm, .40 cal, AR-15) for both law enforcement and the military. I also shoot my .45 with the same markmanship as my other weapons but have never been able to "qualify" with it due to MOST agencies using the 9mm or .40 for the duty carry weapons. Also, when the fit hits the shan, I will be able to keep my composier and fire back, much like in afghanistan where their psychos are much more of a problem than here. Body armor only helps if you wear it correct and stand the right way, most of it does not cover your sides with kevlar (some does). If the shooter is standing non squared then they are exposed there, as well as the inevitable head. Now I would never go right for a head shot, but even with body armor the pattern is 2 to the chest, 1 to the head.

Now all that being said, I am in a mall with my family and psycho orders everyone on the ground, I would only EVER draw and fire IF was able to without reasonable thought of jeopardizing my family. If I can not draw and fire fast enough without being seen than I wouldnt even flinch. You follow the demands of the attacker until you have the opportunity. The time for pants peeing will come later.

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns! It is the truth! Also I hate the saying that guns kill people. If guns kill people than forks make people fat! It is the same logic. A gun is a tool that when placed in the right hands is an awesome tool. I think if you are going to be a gun owner you should not only have a waiting period before getting the weapon but also have to attend a class for your first weapon as well as attend X amount of time at a range for practice. If you are going to handle a weapon you should train and practice with it. I am not against it being a little more difficult to obtain a weapon in some states. Some places you can buy beer, guns, ammo, and condoms under the same roof!

As for the poster who talked about Texas, the crime rates out there are lower than the rest of the country because EVERYONE carries in Texas! You don't get car jacked in Texas because everyone knows Texans will SHOOT YOUR BUTT! I love Texas!

**** it was the fork! Here I thought it was my debit card.

I think I would rather be shot to death than knifed or bludgeoned to death. How do you want it? Quick or slow? The fact is there is no way to stop crazy idiots intent on killing people, until they start doing it. If they do not have guns, they can kill a lot of people with home-made bombs, and they can kill individuals with knives, and hammers, and pipe wrenches, and ropes, and poisons, and all kinds of things that are readily available.

I am sure there are a lot of people who talk big, I would, I will. But there are people out there with background and experience who probably can. I don't know where the majority of people fall. If I was carrying a gun and some yayhoo started shooting up someplace, I would probably get myself killed while giving the perp another gun and more amunition. But that doesn't mean other people wouldn't do better.

[wink-_-wink]

[QUOTE=selzer;2654050 I would probably get myself killed.[/QUOTE]


I would gladly give up my life to save family. Even if it's not mine. I wouldn't have joined the military or volunteered for combat tours, or worked in law enforcement if I wasn't. We all have to go sometime, I just hope I am able to make a difference if I am going to go out that way. Oh and to answer your question, if I had to choose how I was killed by a psycho, deffinitly gunshot. Your right that not everyone would stand up and i am not saying in all siituations I would. In one like put up by the OP then yea more than likely I would! Now if I am in smaller tighter quarters like a bank and there are MULTIPLE gunman, my happy butt will be on the ground with everyone else. Oh and to make it clear, my main goal in something like this situation would not be to kill a bad guy but to safely get my family out of that mall! If we are in old navy and he is somewhere down by gamestop (cause video games make you a killer too!) and I can get my family out a different exit... BYE BYE! IM OUT! and I will be on the phone with emergency responders doing what I can from the outside (cops don't like you to go back into those situations). Everyone has their opinions and is def entitled to them. It is why I enjoy this topic so much because there are SO many views on it!! I enjoy seeing other peoples view and how they express them! For me, the psycho's of the world are job security, they keep commiting crimes, I keep collecting a check. I tell every offender the same thing, you want to put me out of a job, you really want to hurt me? stop committing crimes because they pay me far to much to babysit you!

[TommyB681]

Unfortunatly there is no way to prepare for these events. All you can do is have a general awareness and some personal protection. Am I prepared to use my gun yes, would I yes but the chances Im in the mall and have a clear, unobstructed shot at someone is slim to none at 25 yds or less. But it doesnt mean Im going to stop carrying my gun, Im deffinatly going to know the quickest exit and if I run into another shooter along the way covering the exit maybe Ill have a shot. If not Im taking my family and getting away. But IMO Id rather go out with a gun in my hand defending myself then a bullet in the back for nothing.

[selzer]

I guess I look at incidents like this as I do strikes of lightning. No, it isn't an act of God. But rather, it is rare, and there is little I or anyone can do to prevent it. We don't stop going out or doing anything because we might get struck by lightning. If it is raining and thundering we may stay inside, but we do not stop everything because a storm might come up with lightning and kill me.

I do not know where the exits are. I am just not that afraid of my surroundings that I feel I must always know of a way out. Walking around aways looking over our shoulder for some threat takes some of the pleasure out of life. Hiding inside from April through October because of the possibility of lightning would seriously lower the quality of life. And for me, carrying around a weapon would be a serious nuisance. And the day I wondered into a mall where some nutcase was blowing people away, I would have probably chosen to leave the gun at home.

[wink-_-wink]

Originally Posted by selzer

I do not know where the exits are. I am just not that afraid of my surroundings that I feel I must always know of a way out. Walking around aways looking over our shoulder for some threat takes some of the pleasure out of life. Hiding inside from April through October because of the possibility of lightning would seriously lower the quality of life. And for me, carrying around a weapon would be a serious nuisance. And the day I wondered into a mall where some nutcase was blowing people away, I would have probably chosen to leave the gun at home.

It is not that we are affraid of our surroundings but more in tune or aware of them. I have lost no joy in life with my increased perception, in fact I notice more. I think it is a military/law enforcement thing. When we go to dinner, if possible we sit so there is no one behind me, I can see the entrance and exit. Due to some occasions where offenders have grabbed at me after sneaking up on me (bad choice because he got a 4 inch barrel placed into his belly and nearly lost his life in a walmart (he grabbed me from behind, called me by my title and said I got your A$$ NOW-which is the only reason my gun was drawn.) I have learned to be aware of what and who is around me. And as far as you leaving your gun at home, that is why those of us that say we carry everywhere, we mean it! I don't forget my weapon anywhere, I just chose where I do and do not bring it or carry it.

[msvette2u]

It is not that we are affraid of our surroundings but more in tune or aware of them.

This, exactly - this is also what self-defense teaches you.
Always be aware. That doesn't mean you're afraid or terrified.

And as far as you leaving your gun at home, that is why those of us that say we carry everywhere, we mean it!

Two summers ago I didn't carry as my summer attire didn't allow for my gun.
This past summer I got a different gun and different method of carrying

With all the gun choices and carry choices, there's really no excuse to not be armed (if you so desire).