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Old 12-12-2012, 10:45 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I'm not sure at what point the discussion becomes political, so I'll try to balance on the accepted side of the line.

There is an inherit responsibility to those who have chosen to LEGALLY carry a weapon. That responsibility isn't taken lightly. It isn't a matter of who carries the biggest weapon is the bigger 'man'.

Whereas I can't speak for everyone, I can only speak regarding my own personal experiance. Most of the people I know have a CHL. Most of the people I know carry a weapon on them at all times. Most of the people I know go to the range regularly. They are expert shots. In fact, there are many folks that I know who actively compete.

I have no problem with RESPONSIBLE gun ownership. I am a gun owner. I do have a problem with how easy they are to obtain. Crazy people can get them, people who are angry and have a vendetta against someone or no one in particular can get them and go on a shooting spree. I just think, when you are talking about an object that its sole purpose is to kill humans- they ought to be a little bit harder to get.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:59 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I have no problem with responsible gun ownership. BUT, I live in Canada, and we have a very different culture in respect to guns.

I just quickly looked up the homicide rate in Ottawa (it doesn't say HOW they were killed, just that they were killed ... so I don't know how many used guns).

In Ottawa ONLY (population, about 812,000) there were:

10 homicides in 2009
14 homicides in 2010
11 homicides in 2011
7 to date for 2012

I think a lot of it is access to guns, and the ease of access. Criminals / crazies, irresponsible people, whatever you want to call them simply don't have an "easier" time getting their hands on a gun. Oh they can do it, but just not that easy.

I was in LE for almost 17 years and I only ever saw a gun ONCE - the police had searched the guy's room in the halfway house and found it.

As a Canadian with a completely different mindset about guns, it scares the crap out of me to read so many stories about people going off with guns. I get that these aren't the responsible people ... but I also feel that if access was much more restricted / controlled it MIGHT stop some of the stories we hear about ... or they might just change weapons, and go for knives ... I don't know ...

It is certainly a tragic story to read, and so close to the holidays.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:14 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Was glad to see this thread wasn't about someone's animal being sick or hurt, but really?! 5 pages of political for and against guns all starting out with "well I don't mean to be political but.....

but you are!
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:27 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Interesting about Switzerland. I went and did a little reading. First, yes all of the males are issued guns but they are required to keep them at home.

I believe, IMHO, that their low crime rates are probably due to their stellar economy. Their unemployment rate sat at 2.8% in 2007 (the last year that there was data for on the website), only 3.3% of the people receive welfare. and in 2004 only 4.5% of the workers were considered below the poverty line. Those are far better numbers than what we see in this country.

Unemployment - Switzerland - Information
It is more informative to go look up the crime rates in countries that have enacted a gun ban or severe gun restrictions both before and after the legislation to see how things changed. I'll leave it to anyone interested to find the info.

One thing to keep in mind is that crime stats are not quite as straight forward as we might think because the reporting varies so much in different areas even within the same country. A string of X burglaries in one apartment complex in one area would be reported as X crimes, while in another it might be reported as one crime because they are considered to be related. It makes comparisons between different areas very difficult.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:04 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I always love the John Wayne super hero types that jump up after something like this occurs and brag about how they never leave home without their gun just in case a psycho with an assault rifle starts pumping rounds into whatever public place they happen to be. It's good to know they will all drop behind a table or door and start shooting back with the expert marksmanship that all have even if the psycho is dressed is body armor. Because the rest is us shmoes will be peeing our pants while we run for our lives .

Its less about being a John Wayne super hero and more about being prepared to protect my family. You dont need to have "expert" marksmanship, and rarely is someone like this covered in full body armor. The point is that some of us prefer not to be victims if at all possible, and I think its very naive of you to think that those of us who have said what we would do, wouldn't actually do it, considering you have no idea what training and experience some of us have.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:11 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I am fond of the restriction on guns we have in Canada. While sad situations like this one does occur, and it WOULD be nice to have a gun to protect yourself, most of the time, our society doesn't and shouldn't look like this. I think taking guns out of the hands of everyone, would make it harder for every whack job to enter into a situation like this. Yes, organized crime will still be able to get their hands on a gun, but at least not every other raving lunatic.

Seeing this discussion on guns reminded of the other story posted a while back, a Florida boy in a hoodie who was shot by his patrolling neighbour. With this many guns, someone is bound to take it too far and turn into a vigilante. It's not directed to any of you, because I'm sure there are countless law-abiding gun owners...but it only takes one to make a tragedy.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:14 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I think taking guns out of the hands of everyone, would make it harder for every whack job to enter into a situation like this. Yes, organized crime will still be able to get their hands on a gun, but at least not every other raving lunatic.
Seriously?
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:20 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I think taking guns out of the hands of everyone, would make it harder for every whack job to enter into a situation like this.
And thats the problem. You will NEVER take guns out of the hands of everyone, only the law abiding citizens, and we should never have our right to protect ourselves taken from us. You give the criminals even more power, and turn us law abiding, responsible gun owners into sitting ducks.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:22 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Seriously?
Yes...I posted it, so those are my serious thoughts.

We have gun restrictions in Canada. But not many months ago, there was still a mall shooting one of the biggest malls in Toronto. It wasn't someone who was angry towards society and just decided to pop into a mall, but 2 gangs that thought it would be safer to meet inside the mall. Their theory was, if they met somewhere public, the other party would be less likely to open fire on them. Well, they were wrong and there was a mall shooting.

Whatever the ban, the CRIMINALS would still be able to get their hands on a gun. I would much rather it just be the gangs who had guns, because they are removed and remote from my life for the most. I do my best to stay in safe areas and not attract unneccesary attention to myself when I am out and about. I feel very safe when I am out in the city.

But if every Joe and Jane could walk about and carry a gun, and one of these Joes and Janes were particularly bitter about life that day, or really upset at society, or just not mentally sound, there are many MANY more of them that come into contact with my life than organized criminals. I can choose to avoid bad parts of the neighbourhood, I can choose to avoid dealing with crime, but I can't choose avoid every citizen. The risk is that much higher.

These are my thoughts, and I'm sorry if your thoughts are different. They wre not meant to offend you.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:24 PM   #50 (permalink)
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And thats the problem. You will NEVER take guns out of the hands of everyone, only the law abiding citizens, and we should never have our right to protect ourselves taken from us. You give the criminals even more power, and turn us law abiding, responsible gun owners into sitting ducks.
Before this shooter went into a mall, they were likely also a law-abiding citizen. I would have rather NOT given this citizen a gun.
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