Horrible news

[msvette2u]

Actually yes, I'm so glad you asked!

Senior Citizen Opens Fire on Robbers of Internet Cafe - YouTube

Senior Citizen Opens Fire on Robbers of Internet Cafe - YouTube

I don't think Gabby's attacker was shot but he was brought down by bystanders, one of whom was armed.
Jared Lee Loughner - The New York Times

There's dozens of other such incidents, where a bystander was armed and took the bad guy out but I have to leave and can't look them all up, but YES it does happen.

And in this situation yesterday one man was saying he was going to try to take the guy down when the man was changing out the clip.

We (armed citizens) do not have to wait until the police finally arrive.

I personally believe that any average joes that are carrying are too busy running for their lives to actually enter into a gun battle with a maniac who is better armed.

You'd be wrong, at least in my case. My family is often with me when I'm out and about and you can bet if we all "hit the deck" because some gunman walked in, I'm going to draw my weapon and fire, if I can.

It's the same with taking self-defense classes. I do not want to be a victim, and if this is how it goes down, I won't be, or at least I'd die trying to save my kids and myself.

Handgunlaw.us

BTW, we live in an open carry state. We can carry unconcealed or concealed (concealed if you have the permit).
AZ is a "shall issue", so all you have to do is ask for one

[Liesje]

I don't carry but it doesn't bother me one bit that friends and relatives do. I just choose not to because my only experiences with guns have been very bad. I'd not go into a situation I felt I might be unsafe and not take my dog (for example if I were traveling alone staying at a cheap hotel I would have my dog with me in the room uncrated). If I feel unsafe I either have my dog and/or husband or just don't go, but I rarely feel unsafe. I grew up in a really bad neighborhood so as an adult I've tried very hard to not have to deal with that kind of fear again. I trust my dog's training better than I trust myself with a weapon I guess is what it boils down to. I've put thousands of dollars and four years into my dog's training, there's no way I could go out and get a handgun now and have that same level of protection without the same level of commitment, IMO. But I think guns themselves are somewhat fascinating, love watching episodes of Pawn Stars where they get a cool weapon and tell its history and how it works.

[DharmasMom]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

AZ is a "shall issue", so all you have to do is ask for one

And that right there is the problem. Guns are readily available to anyone and everyone who wants one. Even the people who want to go into malls, restaurants and movie theaters and kill as many people as they can.


And how many innocent people are shot while these gun battles rage? How many people are shot by the well meaning citizens trying to stop the crazy person?

[Lilie]

Originally Posted by sparra

Has there ever been a time where a gunman has been taken down by a member of the public using their weapon??

Yes there have been. There have been several in the state of Texas alone.

I think there is a popularity growing for people to seek fame by performing such cowardice acts as that which started this thread. That is worrisome.

[Stevenzachsmom]

Has the shooter been identified yet? I haven't seen anything. This is so terrible. Sick people in this world. My heart goes out to those who lost loved ones in this senseless act of violence.

[DharmasMom]

Honestly, I see this incident as nothing more than a deposit toward the price we pay for the 2nd amendment. And the currency we pay in is human lives. It is what the majority of this country wants and continues to want so these incidents will continue to occur. So lets call it what it really is. An expected but unplanned yet not very surprising event that is just a prelude to the next one.

[msvette2u]

Originally Posted by DharmasMom

And that right there is the problem. Guns are readily available to anyone and everyone who wants one. Even the people who want to go into malls, restaurants and movie theaters and kill as many people as they can.

And how many innocent people are shot while these gun battles rage? How many people are shot by the well meaning citizens trying to stop the crazy person?

This isn't about politics, but I will say - only law abiding citizens respect and obey laws. If you think not allowing anyone to have guns will keep people alive, think again.

Innocents shot, when a private citizens takes them out? NONE.

Studies show time and time again that the more people carry firearms, the less crime there is.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/switzerland.asp

[Lilie]

Originally Posted by DharmasMom

And how many innocent people are shot while these gun battles rage? How many people are shot by the well meaning citizens trying to stop the crazy person?

I'm not sure at what point the discussion becomes political, so I'll try to balance on the accepted side of the line.

There is an inherit responsibility to those who have chosen to LEGALLY carry a weapon. That responsibility isn't taken lightly. It isn't a matter of who carries the biggest weapon is the bigger 'man'.

Whereas I can't speak for everyone, I can only speak regarding my own personal experiance. Most of the people I know have a CHL. Most of the people I know carry a weapon on them at all times. Most of the people I know go to the range regularly. They are expert shots. In fact, there are many folks that I know who actively compete.

[DharmasMom]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

This isn't about politics, but I will say - only law abiding citizens respect and obey laws. If you think not allowing anyone to have guns will keep people alive, think again.

Innocents shot, when a private citizens takes them out? NONE.

Studies show time and time again that the more people carry firearms, the less crime there is.

snopes.com: Gun Ownership in Switzerland

Interesting about Switzerland. I went and did a little reading. First, yes all of the males are issued guns but they are required to keep them at home.

I believe, IMHO, that their low crime rates are probably due to their stellar economy. Their unemployment rate sat at 2.8% in 2007 (the last year that there was data for on the website), only 3.3% of the people receive welfare. and in 2004 only 4.5% of the workers were considered below the poverty line. Those are far better numbers than what we see in this country.

Unemployment - Switzerland - Information

[Liesje]

I'm not sure what the Snopes article proves. The USA has more guns per capita than Switzerland so more guns doesn't equal less crime. Also you have to take into account the full context of Switzerland's history, geography, and socio-economic status to explain crime stats.