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Old 12-07-2012, 09:23 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Teachers hands really are tied. IMO alot of kids don't care about consequences and there not afraid of anything/anyone...they do & say as they please.

I hate to do the whole when I was in school....BUT my school time was in the 80's and early 90's....I did NOT want to be called to the principals office or have a teacher write a note to my parents...it was two fold...trouble at school, then a big punishment at home...no thank you! lol

The stores my kids have come home and told me are beyond shocking...and we live in a districts that's rated "excellent"...so it doesn't matter where you live.

Telling the teacher to "f*ck off and various other terms...walking out of the classroom if things didn't go there way...being constantly destruptive.

My little brother works with high risk kids...mainly 11 -18 yrs old. I don't know how he does it or why he even cares. His molar has been broke from a kid kicking him in the mouth, stabbed with pens/pencils. Parents around...forget about it...they don't want to deal with them either.

So some schools are really operating in a broke system...and I do think unions & tenure play a part in that....then you have excellent teachers that have a hard time teaching because of awful kids...yes, I called them awful. Meanwhile kids that want to learn and follow the rules suffer...
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:47 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I teach fifth grade and there are some instances when a group punishment is appropriate and others where it is not. For instance, I never take away recess...that would be a punishment for me

However, if I have 1-4 students that are misbehaving the students may miss an opportunity to work with partners or having to have a boy-girl line (which is actually pretty devastating).

Some teachers however, feel that a small group of kids will cause the entire class to sit with their heads down or lose recess, but I think it is unfair to generalize and bash teachers. We have to fix behavior problems that were not caused by us on a daily basis. Just saying take a moment to walk in someone's shoes before you make harsh judgements.
Agree with this--when I was growing up the teacher was always right (well usually) according to my parents-and in the real world sometimes you do get punished for what others do...
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:58 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I have 3 brothers...we are all two years apart. One was always ornery when we were little, he would come home late for dinner and we would be waiting to eat...it was a rule we all sat down for dinner together... on time.

My mom would sometimes punish all of us for his actions....in return we would give him heck about being late, in return because he didn't want to deal with us he would make a better effort! lol

Sometimes group punishment is effective.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:23 PM   #24 (permalink)
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If we are talking about the military I can see the difference, ones life depends on another, but come on now lol. I have seen disruptive behavior in a work place and the bad are let go, demoted or so on, I have worked all kinds of jobs and never got in trouble for anothers ignorance.
I don't have a problem calling kids brats either, I always say that to myself when I have to go to my daughters high school
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:26 PM   #25 (permalink)
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There is an age you know better and an age you are learning, why make the little ones so sour!??
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:31 PM   #26 (permalink)
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young children are pretty resislant(sp?) I am sure they will manage
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:36 PM   #27 (permalink)
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young children are pretty resislant(sp?) I am sure they will manage
They can come rebels too, and come home and ask their parents why? So unless you have a good reason why I should tell my little ones why they should be treated with disrespect and like crap? Hey I am all ears, I just can't think of a good enough reason why yet?!
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:40 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Teach a child the way you want them to grow up and disrespect in not on my list! So trouble a young child with something that might get them beat up, teased or a adult responsibility=, sad indeed!!
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
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My husband doesn't do that but he will withhold certain perks unless everyone complies. For example say he has a jar of candy, something he bought that they would not have gotten anyway, and says that if everyone is quiet and attentive during the lesson they can each have a piece. It helps hold kids accountable for their actions not just because as an individual the teacher said so but holds them accountable with their peers as well because let's face it, in life no one is ever an "island". I don't think the whole class should be punished because of one person but I have no problem with using extra perks and rewards for group behavior. If one kid is bad he might get a call home or stay in for recess, but he won't take away the recess for everyone, only the kid that misbehaved. To me taking away something that is normally a given is different from bringing in something extra.

My niece is in first grade. She weighs about 35 pounds. And she has a sugar problem. Sugar bounces her off the walls. And just a little piece of candy will do it for her because she has little mass to spread it out over, kind of like some small people need less alcohol to be effected by it.

Furthermore, she WANTS candy. If she thinks CANDY is involved, she will lose her mind trying to get it. She will try and get it in ways that are not acceptable.

Why teachers would use candy to get kids to do what they want them to do is really a mystery to me. I know it is about as cheap as you can get, but I know my niece is not the only kid that has candy issues.

To be a good teacher, you need to motivate kids, and candy is something I think should not even be allowed as a motivator. Some kids medically can't have it, some kids behaviorally shouldn't have it, it really doesn't do anything positive for the body, and plenty of negative.

I don't remember regular school teachers ever dishing out candy. Oh on valentines day kids passed around candy, and sometimes for kids' birthdays, the parents brought in cupcakes or candy or something. But our teachers did not bribe us with candy.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:51 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I am a first year teacher, temporarily in a 3rd grade class. I'll move to kindergarten in January.

The sad fact is that teachers are being asked to do so much more than ever before. We need to teach the curriculum well enough so that EVERY child in the room learns enough to do well on standardized assessments. And it had better be individualized to each student. And it had better be quick enough to move on to the other topics that need to be covered that day. We need to be sensitive to EVERY situation and respect the decisions made by parents, even when those decisions negatively impact the student's learning. We need to be social workers and nurses. We need to figure out how to effectively communicate with parents that speak a language we have never heard of before.

Yes, we need to "motivate" our students. But shouldn't these children come to school already motivated by their parents as well? How "motivated" to respect the classroom can a student be when they hear their parent's go on and on about the bad teachers?

School isn't just for learning core curriculum. It is for learning how to follow directions (including how to sit quietly), how to work with others. It teaches children how to handle transitions from one activity to another. It teaches how to take responsibility. The list is endless, and totally unconnected to math, or science or language arts.

Grown up life causes us all to be held responsible for the behavior of others. Ever worked with a screw up or two? Not too much fun is it? And it causes the entire work environment to suffer.

Yes, there are absolutely bad teachers out there. But they are actually fairly few and far between. The rest of us care deeply about what we do and work very, very hard to provide the best education possible.

Sue, I would be willing to bet that if your niece's parents asked the teacher to not provide candy as a reward, the teacher would be more than happy to comply. Have they already made that request, and been ignored? You're right, it is cheap. But after sinking our own money into classroom learning materials, cheap is often the only choice left. Feel free to provide your niece's teacher with the exact type of reward you think your niece should get. The teacher would probably be more than happy to hand that personal reward out at the same time the rest of the class gets the candy. I personally have three children in my 3rd grade class that have unconfirmed allergies to just about everything, so I make sure that during birthday parties, holiday celebrations and rewards those children only get the pre-approved food items the parents have provided. And I keep a stash I paid for and brought in myself for those times when the parents don't respond to my e-mails or phone calls that their student has been out of their special food for almost a month.

As far as having the whole class lose out in a privilege, etc.? Next time maybe the students sitting near the main offender won't laugh and giggle when the student does whatever it is. And if they don't get the encouragement from the peer group, the behavior usually stops. The giggles and admiring looks from a peer group (especially with middle school kids) are all a part of the same disruptive behavior.

So, the next time anyone complains about the "bad teachers", demand that the term be strictly defined. Is it a teacher that you just don't like? Is it a teacher who has failed in teaching your student anything? Is it a teacher you don't agree with, but who is over all effective? Is it a teacher who looks like a teacher you had in 6th grade, who shamed you or made you feel less than capable in some way?

You would be surprised how loosely the term is used.
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