A dog is only as good as the person who owns it?

[Marnie]

I believe the right person can make a confident and well behaved pet dog out of anything. It's hard if the dog was emotionally damaged as a puppy, for example older puppy mill dogs take a lot of work. I've never seen a dog that I thought was genetically hopeless. I'm not sure what a genetically hopeless dog would look like. Aggressive, shy, stupid, wild, just not sure what genetics would make a dog a worthless pet? Maybe somebody could clarify.

Now of course a good pet is a lot different than a good sporting dog or good herding dog. More than hard to make a typical sheltie into a good police dog or a typical yorkie into a good field dog. The exception might be some pit bulls. Even good owners can't guarantee that an unsupervised pit bull will not chase a running, screaming child or animal. In the absence of the owner, who knows what the dog might do. That is genetic and it took hundreds of years for man to cement those traits into the breed.

[Liesje]

Marnie, I have. And it can be any of those things you listed (or a combination). The dog was not "damaged as a puppy" in fact she was raised very well, great home, very well trained but she was outgoing with some people and terrified (I'm talking pee and poop on herself) of others for no reason (these people did nothing to her ever, she would be terrified of them at first meeting before there was any context or even an opportunity for them to do something that might inadvertently scare a dog). I tried to help for over three years, it never got any better or worse, so I eventually "retired" the dog in a very quiet home with as few people as possible... calm older couple with extensive dog experience (K9 cop handler), no kids in the home, no other pets, out in the country.

[Marnie]

Originally Posted by Liesje

Marnie, I have. And it can be any of those things you listed (or a combination). The dog was not "damaged as a puppy" in fact she was raised very well, great home, very well trained but she was outgoing with some people and terrified (I'm talking pee and poop on herself) of others for no reason (these people did nothing to her ever, she would be terrified of them at first meeting before there was any context or even an opportunity for them to do something that might inadvertently scare a dog). I tried to help for over three years, it never got any better or worse, so I eventually "retired" the dog in a very quiet home with as few people as possible... calm older couple with extensive dog experience (K9 cop handler), no kids in the home, no other pets, out in the country.

Hi Leisje, I’m so glad you were able to find a good home for your dog. I hope she has become a valued pet for her new owners. The thing is, no one can ever know if the dog is unstable genetically or traumatized at some point in her early life.

My border collie was insane in some people’s opinion. But I think I know part of the reason. I got her at 4 months old. She had never left the milk house where she was born. Her owners kept her clean and well fed. The kids groomed her but she was absolutely and totally unsocialized. Of course she would do the submissive peeing. When I tried to put her in an airline kennel to go to the vet, she bit the stuffing out of me (this was at 4-months old.) She jumped thru several screen windows and then moved on to jumping thru glass. She chewed and bent the wires on a chain link fence until almost all her teeth were broken. I can’t tell you how many times I wanted to get rid of that dog. But eventually she outgrew it—all but the desperate chewing to escape from thunder storms. If thunderstorm phobia is a genetic disorder, she had it. Actually, everyone I know who has a border collie complains of extreme thunder storm phobia. But for the last 13 years of her life, a smarter and more obedient dog never existed. She may have been a little unstable mentally or maybe it is part of her breeding? Border collies are bred with extreme intelligence and the desire to solve problems. When their problem solving doesn’t agree with ours, that’s when the crisis arises. A door, a window, a fence were simply barriers to overcome and she always had the heart, even in great pain. Except for the fact that she cost me a garage door, a kitchen door, a car door, several screens and one window, a TV (knocked over) and numerous other stuff that is best forgotten she wasn’t a bad or worthless dog and she probably taught me more than any other dog I ever owned..

[harmony]

I think a bad behavior is when a dog acts in an improper manner and the owner gives it a kiss for being that way

[harmony]

So if my kid wants to throw rocks at your car I guess I should hug and kiss him, Not!!

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by Marnie

Hi Leisje, I’m so glad you were able to find a good home for your dog. I hope she has become a valued pet for her new owners. The thing is, no one can ever know if the dog is unstable genetically or traumatized at some point in her early life.

Actually you can know because the dog was bred, raised, and trained by the same person. She was not traumatized and if some random scary thing accidentally happened, that is still a clear indication of genetically bad nerve because no dog should interpret something mundane as so traumatic the dog is scarred for life. Also, her mental "offness" I guess you could call it was not skittishness anyway. I trained the dog and put 12 more titles on her so she was capable of traveling and being in very chaotic environments but there were several behaviors where she demonstrated a few screws loose. It's not something you can change and it's not really fair to the dog to try.