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What is " lower drive German Shepherd?"

28K views 57 replies 30 participants last post by  cliffson1 
#1 ·
I often see perspective owners and occasionally breeders that describe the dogs they want or breed as " lower drive German Shepherds ".
What does that mean? Does it mean that the dog is calm all the time?
I always thought " drive" was an action, usually in conjunction with a basic characteristics of the breed.(i.e. Food,Sex, pack, defense, prey, etc)...
SO what is a lower drive German Shepherd?
 
#2 ·
I think what they're looking for is a pet type dog who will be less maintenance. Meaning they'll be happy with less exercise and they don't need a job. A higher drive dog would be too much for them to handle for one reason or another because they can't give him the proper exercise and work and ultimately the dog is bouncing off the walls, tearing stuff up, etc because it's frustrated.

Drive, when I think of it, is a desire to act on a certain instinct. Prey drive as an example you gave is the dogs desire to chase or hunt something.
 
#3 ·
for me when someone like JQP says "lower drive", they are looking for a dog with low energy ..I don't think people (JGP) know the difference between 'energy' and 'drives'...I see all the time people say "my dog is high drive he'll go all day",,what they really mean is "my dog is high energy he'll go all day"..confusion between drives and energy
 
#4 ·
What people should be asking for is a dog with clear calm drives and a nice off switch. But honestly, more people need a dog just a little bit pushy to get them off of the couch and out for a good walk.

I agree that "lower drive" is confused with "lower energy".
 
#5 · (Edited)
Yes I agree it is often confusion. Not sure if there really is a low energy gsd either. Although there are different levels of energy. I suppose it's one's own personal definition of energy. Is why I went with a completely different breed when I had toddlers as my own energy was spent and focused elsewhere. Calmness to me is considered a nice off switch and somewhat self control/ inner obedience. Inner obedience- not taught- one example when we eat dinner Luna will go lay down out of site and not bother us regardless if she was ever fed from the table or not. Max is a food slob and will be always trying to get me to think he is practicing his focus exercises during meal times. Max has a great off switch just not as disciplined in certain things.
 
#6 ·
Recently had a dialog with someone looking for a puppy closer to the west coast.

They apparently had plans to breed the dog (undivulged! but they already have a male) given the lack of GSD pet dogs in their area (having a male that was not high drive) and indignantly reacted to a female with limited registration.

They found a back yard breeder producing dog of mixed type - czech/WGR/AKC pet unknown combos - who was glad to sell them a lower drive female on open papers....

Another back yard breeder is on the way - and dogs who look like GSDs but whose personalities and drives are more similar to a Collie or Golden are produced for the pet market who don't want a dog whose character is defined as a working animal.


Sad....very very sad.



Lee
 
#7 ·
Drive is different than energy. I feel drive is the intensity at which a dog reacts to something. A lab, or a golden can be high in drive.
When you research about German Shepherds you see drive all over the place. And that often is equated to energy, as opposed to actual drives.
 
#8 ·
This is EXACTLY what I asked on the "Appleridge" thread

quote

"the OP said "My search for a lower drive shepherd lead" .

What exactly does that mean?

From what I see is is increased energy that isn't satisfied because it can not be channeled into
something useful.
That is not what defines a working breed."

You look for "lower drive" because you don't want a dynamic dog with aptitude and capability for work .
Instead you end up with a dog not bred for drive , for balance , for that off switch .

There are breeders using "lower drive" as a niche , for pets -- and are proud that the dog doesn't have drive -
but it doesn't have potential either . Not the "total package" that a GSD should be.
Instead they have dogs with energy to spare and lack of focus - a charming (annoying) perpetual puppy-brain, never quite maturing .

Breeding for it deliberately - market niche --
 
#9 · (Edited)
As with all aspects of ownership, whenever a breeder talks to a prospective owner about drives, I think that is a great time for them to educate...a "teachable moment" if you will.

I am guilty of asking for exactly the same thing myself...I think I said I didn't want an "ultra high drive dog". Because of my prior experiences interacting with poorly bred animals in the past. As it was pointed out, I think what I was really asking for was a dog that I can successfully maintain having little experience truly working a dog.

What "drive" means for me has changed in my short time as a GSD owner thanks to a little bit of education. I'm not afraid of the word like I was before. It doesn't equate to a high strung hot mess of a dog that I thought it did.

As it turns out, I absolutely love my dog's drive. I can get him to work for me for something simple like a rope. His eyes are on me and he is giving me focus I have never seen any any of my other dogs for a small toy. We both look forward to working together because it is so rewarding for both of us. I don't think we would have as much fun if he didn't have the drive that he has...what is the point of a dog like this that isn't at least somewhat driven? Is the owner looking for a lawn ornament?

Now, all of this doesn't mean that I necessarily want a dog that has to be working all the time either. So I also agree with the idea of pet owners wanting an "off switch"...that was something multiple people told me was present lines I ended up getting and it has proven to be true thus far and I'm happy for it. It should work out well for the personal goals I have set for us going forward and working together as a team.
 
#10 ·
well said JnK !
" It doesn't equate to a high strung hot mess of a dog that I thought it did.

As it turns out, I absolutely love my dog's drive. I can get him to work for me for something simple like a rope. His eyes are on me and he is giving me focus I have never seen any any of my other dogs for a small toy. We both look forward to working together because it is so rewarding for both of us. I don't think we would have as much fun if he didn't have the drive that he has...what is the point of a dog like this that isn't at least somewhat driven? Is the owner looking for a lawn ornament?

Now, all of this doesn't mean that I necessarily want a dog that has to be working all the time either. So I also agree with the idea of pet owners wanting an "off switch"...that was something multiple people told me was present lines I ended up getting and it has proven to be true thus far and I'm happy for it. It should work out well for the personal goals I have set for us going forward and working together as a team."

by co-incidence , and the young lady might be reading this, I was contacted over the phone by a person wanting a lower drive dog -- literally minutes before this thread popped up.
What JnK said is what i said to her.

I've seen the "lower drive dogs" that are put out by some breeders -- they lack desire to work with - need manipulation to motivate them , yet , they might have an abundance of energy .
 
#20 ·
I've seen the "lower drive dogs" that are put out by some breeders -- they lack desire to work with - need manipulation to motivate them , yet , they might have an abundance of energy .
Misguided random acts of terror energy. The dog has no focus in the sense of purpose.
 
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#13 ·
Well, by that measurement, Halo is ULTRA high drive! She is obsessed with balls, would eat until she exploded, and goes batcrap crazy at the squirrels in the backyard. :rofl:
 
#12 ·
We've had GSDs for 30 years, and I still don't know if Halo is actually HIGH drive, or just higher drive than our previous dogs! That determination, IMO, requires some experience or at least the observation of dogs with various levels of drive, and the average pet owner simply doesn't have that perspective.

When deciding to get her, our first WL shepherd, I was concerned that she might be too much dog for me. And she was a challenge at first, until I figured out what to do with her drives. We have a great local trainer that helped us channel them appropriately, but I can definitely relate to people being intimidated by the concept of a high drive dog, and not really understanding what that entails.

Keefer is an old fart now, but he was drivier in his youth than our previous dogs had been up to that point. Even at nearly 12 years old he still has lots of energy and enthusiasm, although obviously not the stamina that he used to. In that sense Halo wasn't THAT different, although she's got a work ethic that goes beyond anything he ever had. And she's actually lazier around the house than he is. Her off switch is amazing, she can turn it on an off like flipping a light switch, which is pretty cool to see. I love her drives, her focus, her intensity, her love of training, and her passion for her sport. :wub: Her crafty intelligence is a constant source of amusement too. Those wheels in her brain are ALWAYS turning, lol.
 
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#14 ·
Once you've learned how to work with a dog's drives and train that way - whether it's using food or toys or whatever is the motivator - I think it becomes much more challenging to work with a dog that IS lower in drive. First-time owners who want a low drive GSD don't know what they're missing. Granted, there's a learning curve to working a dog correctly in drive but when you see them light up with joy and anticipation, it's absolutely worth it. There's nothing like a working dog that loves to work.
 
#15 ·
A dog without drive would be a dog that has no interest in working. What a sad thing to happen to a GSD.

This is how I look at it when I am choosing a dog to work Vs. one that could work yet will fit in fine with an active family. I, personally, want to own animals that DEMAND to work. They can settle, they can deal with mom not being up to working them that day, but they are pushy and would find other things to do if their minds were not utilized in some ways. The pups I put into active pet homes want to work, but don't need to work. They are happy just chasing a ball, hanging with the kids in the back yard, going to games, running with dad or going on a nice hike on the weekend. For those people who want a dog with no desire to work, they need to find another breed.
 
#24 ·
I would describe my female as very much like the DEMANDING type that is described here first. She was always ready for more, always wanted more, sometimes more than I had and she was a working dog. She was outstanding at her job, never let me down.

The second type, the want to but don't need to, is how I would describe my boy. And I love him, he is just what I wanted. He has never not thrown himself 100% into anything I asked of him and impressed me, but if I don't ask anything of him he is pretty content to just fool around in the yard with his cuz toys. I don't think he is ever happier than when it's time to go to work at something, but he's much more go with the flow than she ever was.
 
#18 ·
Some dogs are more chilled out than others. Compared to our last girl (Trouble), who would run/chase for hours on end Samson is chilled out. That doesn't mean he doesn't have prey drive, is lazy, or doesn't need a job. It just means he prefers/requires less than Trouble did. She just never stopped no matter what you did. Although at nearly 7 months we're seeing some changes in Samson.
 
#21 ·
Drive



I'm getting a lot of static from folks in regards to my saying I am looking for a lower drive GSD. And suggesting I should want a golden. I see in the adult world there are still bullies on the playground.
I had my first GSD when I was 8 years old. I trained her in obedience and tracking. I did not show as I was a child in WV whose parents did not have the knowledge or the means for this. I have had 5 others since then. I have first hand witnessed the evolution of the GSD. I realize I may not be as educated and versed in all the politically correct terms and am not an "Expert" on today's Gsd's and all the types and sub-types as all of you fine people. I do deserve to be able to have a "well bred" healthy GSD for a family companion with proper exercise, stimulation and nutrition that is not so "driven" and "intense" that goes for anything that moves, is intent on "eating" other pets or animals within the family and is so aggressiive you have to muzzle to go to the vet, or crate to invite folks into your home, or so separation anxiety ridden you have to crate them for their safety to leave your home without them, and one you can't take into public because of their fear and aggression towards everything that moves.
To me that is a lot of what is available today. To me that is not what a German shepherd is. I would hope there are kennels who breed Gsd's for family companions that don't charge thousands and thousands of dolllars. I hope I just haven't found them yet. All the GSD's in rescues that I have found are listed as " not for homes with children or other pets because of their intensity or lack of socialization. I know first hand that some Gsd's no matter how much training, socialization and exercise are just neurotic. Bad breeding, I get that, and unfortunately for the Gsd's it is all to common.
Sooo, I will quit asking for referrals to breeders with lower drives and am asking for breeder referrals to kennels with "well bred GSDs" with appropriate drives and temperaments to be great family companions.
 
#23 ·
I'm getting a lot of static from folks in regards to my saying I am looking for a lower drive GSD. And suggesting I should want a golden. I see in the adult world there are still bullies on the playground.
I had my first GSD when I was 8 years old. I trained her in obedience and tracking. I did not show as I was a child in WV whose parents did not have the knowledge or the means for this. I have had 5 others since then. I have first hand witnessed the evolution of the GSD. I realize I may not be as educated and versed in all the politically correct terms and am not an "Expert" on today's Gsd's and all the types and sub-types as all of you fine people. I do deserve to be able to have a "well bred" healthy GSD for a family companion with proper exercise, stimulation and nutrition that is not so "driven" and "intense" that goes for anything that moves, is intent on "eating" other pets or animals within the family and is so aggressiive you have to muzzle to go to the vet, or crate to invite folks into your home, or so separation anxiety ridden you have to crate them for their safety to leave your home without them, and one you can't take into public because of their fear and aggression towards everything that moves.
To me that is a lot of what is available today. To me that is not what a German shepherd is. I would hope there are kennels who breed Gsd's for family companions that don't charge thousands and thousands of dolllars. I hope I just haven't found them yet. All the GSD's in rescues that I have found are listed as " not for homes with children or other pets because of their intensity or lack of socialization. I know first hand that some Gsd's no matter how much training, socialization and exercise are just neurotic. Bad breeding, I get that, and unfortunately for the Gsd's it is all to common.
Sooo, I will quit asking for referrals to breeders with lower drives and am asking for breeder referrals to kennels with "well bred GSDs" with appropriate drives and temperaments to be great family companions.
I think it is completely reasonable to expect to find a well bred GSD that will fit in with your family. I think the problem most people have with people looking for GSD with low drives is that many of those people (I am definitely not saying you!) really do expect to find a couch potato that requires no work. Many people expect to find a dog that looks like a GSD, yet has no aggression, no drive, no energy. That is what I think sends people into a tizzy.

The best thing you can do in order to find a nice GSD to suit your needs would be to get out to some clubs (GSD or IPO) and observe. See if the dogs appear confident. Talk to the owners and the trainers about their dogs, what they are like at home, what they are like out in public. Ask if they are good with kids. Ask if they live with other animals, and how they get along with those other animals. If you find a GSD you really like, ask the owner where they got their dog. The internet is a nice place to get info, but really nothing compares to seeing dogs in person, away from their home environment, to assess what the dogs are really like. What one person here thinks of as lower drive, might still be too much dog for another. Actively going out to see a bunch of dogs is of course more time consuming, but it is much easier to see a dog and say "I want a dog like that" than it is to try to describe what you want. If you post your general location, perhaps someone can help direct you to a club at which you can observe. Best wishes in your search!
 
#22 · (Edited)
Why would a Gsd a guide dog for the blind be low drive? There is alot of focused channeled energy needed. The dog needs to be clearly focused in its job and a strong work ethic. Not hectic. I can imagine a highest threshold to. I would think the same for a service dog. Is there really Gsd with low drives? When I hear low drive I think of my chihuahua. Hardest little guy to obedient train he tries his hardest. Easiest dog to own at the same time.
 
#29 ·
I didn't read all the replies, but I would say that I have a low drive GSD. He sleeps when I sleep, never wakes me up early, is happy batting around a deflated soccer ball in the back yard and generally is just a very easygoing mellow dog. That being said, we walk about 3-5 miles every day around the neighborhood with several trips a week to do other fun stuff.

He never really destroyed anything as a puppy and even when we are in the middle of intense play (I let him jump up and grab my arm, feel free to yell at me) his "off switch" is readily accessible - stand still, and he lays in the grass with his tongue out.

I have to say... he can also be "lazy" in our group training classes. He is not laser focused on me and doesn't really "burst" with energy. But I love it. It suits my equally calm personality. I can't picture him with the obsessive demonic stare of a competitive obedience dog but he is always paying some level of attention to me. :)
 
#30 · (Edited)
From what I've experienced most people outside of dog sport do not know what an off switch is, I believe when they say they want a low energy or low drive dog they mean a dog with a good off switch that can settle in the house and be calm when it is time to be calm.
It really is a shame it's not easier to educate people about different drives and how important a balance of those drives is when buying a puppy.
I have yet to see any breeders that breed specifically for pets that seem to know anything about pedigrees or understand drives/balance. I can bet that most of the dogs you are seeing listed for rescue as not for homes with children or other pets were dogs who's breeder's would say they are bred for pets. I highly doubt many of them are from working line or show line breeders.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I'm not sure why this has become a major issue for people. To me, a dog with extreme high drive is one that is very intense and has no off switch. When I looked for my most recent dog a friend who does SAR suggested I look for a dog with an off switch. I liked that concept. I ended up getting a WL dog from a breeder who insisted the dogs were medium drive. Compared to what? I was very clear, I wanted an energetic dog with an off switch, which is exactly what I got. But he is not medium drive. He is high drive but not over the top.. That is, a dog who will go go go but when I call him off, will Out. My private trainer even told me, this is not a medium drive dog. I am happy, though. I got exactly what I wanted. At first, I thought he might be too much dog for me but after working with a private trainer whose earlier career was with working line German Shepherds, we found the right methods for us and he has become the best companion. He loves to learn and work for me.

When I was looking, I also talked to a WGSL breeder who hesitated to sell me a dog when I told her what I wanted because "all puppies have energy." I never once mentioned energy to her, I was talking about drive. How can a breeder of GSDs not understand drive? Of course, I took her off my list, even though she had dogs related to my first WGSL who was an awesome dog. I decided it wasn't worth continuing the discussion.

I don't think there are any low drive German Shepherds. All GSDs have some drive. There may be less intense dogs, but there is natural drive in all of them.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Completely agree with this. I define drive as intensity, not energy. Will the dog keep performing its task, regardless of distraction or discouragement. My WL girl is high drive; when she is asked to do something she does it without stopping. That said, she has a great off switch and can be laid back when the situation warrants it. She is extremely toy and food motivated and would likely not lose focus on either if the world were falling down around her ears.

My WGSL pup, I wanted something with a bit less intensity. Having two high drive, intense dogs just didn't appeal to me and I wanted to experience the showline. I can already tell he's more medium drive, which is what I wanted. He's a ball of energy, which is good. I want high energy dogs because they marathon train with me and this little bugger will take Mac's place as my training partner which she gets too old for it (she's 9).

But regarding drive, he's just not as intense as Mac was as a pup. He's more naturally relaxed. Still very food and toy motivated, almost to the extent of Mac, but he's more of a goober than she was (and that's a technical term).

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#33 ·
So I know it has been said, but I think it bears repeating that most people confuse the term drive with term energy. So someone may say they are looking for a "lower drive" dog, but what they mean is a lower energy dog.

I have seen plenty of dogs, evaluated plenty of dog that were said be VERY HIGH DRIVE, but they weren't, they were high energy. Always on the go, but with no purpose to their energy.

I also think the word drive has somehow morphed into meaning high 'prey/play" drive. And that becomes an issue as well. GSD should have and utilize multiple types of drive, prey/play, hunt,pack, defense. A dog can have a high prey drive, but very low hunt drive. So I think that we have a done s disservice by focusing so much on the "my dog will play ball all day long, he will jump off roofs to get his ball" But that same dog wont look for more than 5 second to find a ball that went into the brush.

In the SAR world, I typically look for a dog with a medium prey/play. A dog that really enjoys the toy and will do things to get that reward. But a deal breaker is a dog that wont look for that toy tirelessly. We have "tests" for SAR dogs. Throw the toy into heavy brush, hold the dog back for 30-60 second, turns them a around a few times, and then let them go. A dog will be washed if they dont go out and bust through brush and search and search for that toy.

So I think we need to look at how we use the word to describe what we are looking for.

My boy now is an overall medium drive dog. medium prey, medium hunt, good pack, medium energy. He like to play and tug, he will search for a pretty good time for his toy, he revels in praise when working and is fairly low energy. All in all an easy dog to live with. He will bring me toys at innopportune times and push to play, he will fetch for a while, he enjoys being challenged and loves to nap on the couch. None of his drives are at a level that would make him a good SAR dog. But he is a great dog that is enjoying other forms of work.

If he is a 6 in drive, I would like an 8 for SAR work. That said, people stop and watch us doing obedience and Rally. He is fun to watch work, because when he is on, he is ON. He is a dork a lot of the time, be he commands attention.

So to be honest and f using the words as I think thye should be used, a low drive would be pretty boring, they would have no desire to play, they would not want to work for their owner for anything. But that does not mean they would not be a busy dog.
 
#34 ·
Maybe, GSDSAR, but I had a dog with an extremely high prey drive who had energy but burned it off. However, if she fixated on a small animal, I could not easily pull her off, whether she was tired or not. I had her until she was almost 14. Her energy gradually gave out but her prey drive and fixation on small animals never did.
 
#36 ·
You can have a dog that has both high prey drive and high energy. They are not synonymous is what I am getting at. To be perfectly honest, its not a dog that I would enjoy owning. But to each his own. I am also not a fan of the current trend in crazy high prey drive. I just dont like it. I like moderate prey/play, high biddability and moderate to high hunt.
 
#35 ·
I often see perspective owners and occasionally breeders that describe the dogs they want or breed as " lower drive German Shepherds ".
What does that mean? Does it mean that the dog is calm all the time?
I always thought " drive" was an action, usually in conjunction with a basic characteristics of the breed.(i.e. Food,Sex, pack, defense, prey, etc)...
SO what is a lower drive German Shepherd?
I'm getting a lot of static from folks in regards to my saying I am looking for a lower drive GSD. And suggesting I should want a golden. I see in the adult world there are still bullies on the playground.
I had my first GSD when I was 8 years old. I trained her in obedience and tracking. I did not show as I was a child in WV whose parents did not have the knowledge or the means for this. I have had 5 others since then. I have first hand witnessed the evolution of the GSD. I realize I may not be as educated and versed in all the politically correct terms and am not an "Expert" on today's Gsd's and all the types and sub-types as all of you fine people. I do deserve to be able to have a "well bred" healthy GSD for a family companion with proper exercise, stimulation and nutrition that is not so "driven" and "intense" that goes for anything that moves, is intent on "eating" other pets or animals within the family and is so aggressiive you have to muzzle to go to the vet, or crate to invite folks into your home, or so separation anxiety ridden you have to crate them for their safety to leave your home without them, and one you can't take into public because of their fear and aggression towards everything that moves.
To me that is a lot of what is available today. To me that is not what a German shepherd is. I would hope there are kennels who breed Gsd's for family companions that don't charge thousands and thousands of dolllars. I hope I just haven't found them yet. All the GSD's in rescues that I have found are listed as " not for homes with children or other pets because of their intensity or lack of socialization. I know first hand that some Gsd's no matter how much training, socialization and exercise are just neurotic. Bad breeding, I get that, and unfortunately for the Gsd's it is all to common.
Sooo, I will quit asking for referrals to breeders with lower drives and am asking for breeder referrals to kennels with "well bred GSDs" with appropriate drives and temperaments to be great family companions.
The key for you is a good breeder to match you up with a puppy that fits. Our breeder knew we wanted a family pet, would get a CGC certificate, maybe do some tracking and possibly therapy work. It turned out that one of her more calm puppies was coated, which is a fault, and made the price more reasonable. Not all of the puppies in the litter would have been a goid fit, but Samson was. Remember, not every pup in a litter is the same. There will be different levels of intensity throughout the litter. You just need to find a good breeder.
 
#39 ·
I want to know where people get the idea that service dogs are low drive. They are most certainly not. It requires a ton of focus, clearheadedness, and nerve strength to do what these dogs do.

What I have learned is that drive is 100% subjective and it depends entirely on who you ask as to what is what. As far as I'm concerned, Strauss was a high drive dog with a great off switch.

Other people would have called him medium or low drive. Still others would have called him extreme.

What I know is that he was the right fit for me, but describing what I want to others has not gotten me what I wanted, because it's completely subjective. It's the same for energy. One person's high energy is another person's lay about.
 
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