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I may become a backyard breeder....

14K views 67 replies 29 participants last post by  maxtmill 
#1 ·
Not by choice.... as a last ditch effort to keep from losing my house.... yes, I'm that close..The out of funds time starts in November and will run thru February.

If I can work this out and breed Summer and sell 4 puppies for $500.00 each... I can make it until my first social security check which will come 3/1/17.

Get outraged... get angry... get anything you want - but it won't change my reality.

ONE breeding - it will be her 4th heat. Yes, I've delivered puppies before and assisted in delivery of difficult ones...

NO, I won't make any decisions until I have her hips done. She's as health rock solid as any dog I've ever owned in the last 50 years. She has Sire/Dam 3rd gen breedings that reports are all good and Sib breedings that are also in 3 lit and all good.

She's what people in my area want - she's healthy, happy and I know I can sell 5 papered pups - anything else will go to pay vet/care bills.... I am aware of the risks - it makes me sick, but I need her help... I've exhausted plan A & B - her help's plan C.

So, you guys can choose to hate me or not. Help or not. I'm interested in, and what I need is in the next 5 months to learn more about "complementary" Sire/Dam selections and what I need to know... If she is right, and desirable, in the way she needs to be - than I will be looking at breeders in Western Montana and Eastern Washington area.. they may be looking for type - which may seem outrageous to many of you but there is a preferred "type" papered GSD here in the "Inland Northwest".

I really have no idea... as I said, this is a last resort but it can be done and might pull off a very good outcome. I've got 4 months to do nothing but research... Might be the first month - it gets thrown in the hopper....

What I need, if anyone has info - is some good solid hookups to breeders in NEastern Washington State, North Idaho, Western Montana. My plan is to do nothing, no decision until I get her OFA'd. Then, if she makes that and all is well - just to email her papers to recommended breeders in my region and go from there with them.

She's got some very desirable qualities, I think. Hope she can help me.
 
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#3 ·
I think the odds of it costing your more than you clear are very realistic and, yes, possible health consequences. It is not about hating but practicality. Maybe we can help you explore other options if we know the limitations / parameters you are working with.
 
#5 ·
What about her temperament? Is that solid? Does she have behavioral problems or is she a well adjusted dog? What would she be passing on that new owners will be working with?

Does she have any titles or qualifications that would make a breeder want to allow you to breed her to their stud? Or will you be stuck with some random male that you use because he's what you found?

Can you pay vet bills for Summer and the pups if that arises? The stud fee?

I'm concerned for you that if this doesn't go well, you'll find yourself even closer to losing your home. I'm also concerned for Summer and these hypothetical puppies.
 
#6 ·
While we are being realistic, let's remember this is a senior. Kids with a college degree can't find jobs, how easy do you think it will be for a senior? Another reality is that selling Summer won't bring in enough to warrant it, plus it would cause depression.

My main concern is Summers health. Aside from the hips, there are other tests that need to be ran on both the male and female before they mate--I forget what they are called. If something goes wrong you will never forgive yourself if you can't help her.

^^^^**^This is reality ^^^^^*
 
#7 ·
This is a reality, foreclosure process is much longer than three months. I would put my efforts into discussions with the bank rather than this idea. Too many what ifs in breeding, and it could cost you so much more. Our local paper never has enough carriers. I get the impression a solitary job would be more suitable for you.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I believe the process might have already began or something was already going on with it. She doesn't drive, so a 60 something year old woman should ride her bike and carry hundreds of papers? Let me ask, would you want your older mother or grandma to do that?



It's a darn shame seniors are going through this at all and it's only going to get worse.

How about a part time job at the cafe you frequent?
 
#8 · (Edited)
My experience with breeding goats for profit was this:

If you want to make a living and be profitable, you have to be rather heartless at times and sacrifice a life for the sake of the money. This was something I could not do. When a $300 goat cost me $600 in emergency c section and related vet bills....kid is stillborn and a loss, would have made better business sense to shoot her. Not something I could do.

I had 2 of those...neither were on a goat worth enough money to justify the surgery ect but I did it because I had to...

I could go on....once my herd was big enough it actually was profitable despite my soft heart but not nearly as profitable as it could have been if managed differently. Ultimately a big part of the decision to get out of goats on that level was my knowing I will always make the least profitable decision if it means the welfare f the animal, it will alway be an uphill battle, and there are ways for someone like me to make money with less moral conflict

With only one breeding animal and one litter the possibility of losing your shirt is totally there, and the only reason any profit with goats is that I did mostly all vet care myself which you can't really do with a dog.
 
#9 ·
First, you're going to have more expenses than just hips. You'll need to have basic health work up if she hasn't recently. Get hips/elbows done (anywhere from $200 to some areas $600). DM testing - $65. Then you've got stud fee. Research her pedigree for potential issues and recessives that she carries. Find a male and do the same. Find a responsible breeder whose male is a good match that will agree to let you use their male if you tell them this back story. A lot of them will turn you away when they see the price you plan to charge for pups.
Then prepare a fund for an emergency c-section.
What if all the pups die? What if you end up with a litter of 10 pups and you only sell a couple and are "stuck" feeding the rest?
Expenses for basic puppy care even if all goes well?

Everywhere has that preferred "type" you talk about. It's called cheap and at least looks like what the public expects a GSD to look like. Everything might go well and it might all go in the toilet. You can market them as Christmas pups, if the time is right. Pray to God that they aren't all dead by the time Easter rolls around.

Do you know if the timing of her heat is even going to be synch with your plan? What are you going to do if you spend all of this money on health prep and stud fee and then she doesn't take? Yes, most will allow a re-breeding on her next heat but that will be too late to help you now.

Have you contacted your local Human Services? They can help you come up with a plan, even temporary assistance, to cover you until your social security begins. Meals on wheels, etc etc
There are programs out there that won't involve you investing capital you can't spare on a "hope she gets pregnant and there are no complications" plan
 
#10 ·
I have a friend who recently whelped her female. Needed an emergency c-section (of course in the middle of the night). Lost 3 pups. Then a 4th died later. Now only 3 are left.
Bad things happen, even in the best planned litters.
Yes, you can make money but not if you're doing it correctly. In a case by case basis, it can be an "all or nothing" enterprise
 
#12 ·
Sometimes, when we are facing a crisis, it's easy to get tunnel vision and think we only have one option when that might not be true. Let's just think about this and see what alternatives we can suggest. Here's one:

What about applying at a temp agency?

"Employers reluctant to hire new full-time workers with benefits may increasingly rely on short-term help. Temporary jobs and project assignments can be ideal for seniors who want to bring in some income but also enjoy a significant amount of leisure time. Contact a temp agency about short-term projects, seasonal work, or a job filling in for employees who are on vacation or maternity leave."

This is just one suggestion I found online. I have temped before, myself, when I was between jobs and although it was short-term, I ended up being with the same company the whole time. I know that you don't have a car though, and am not sure if you have access to public transportation, so that may complicate things.

Would it be worthwhile to make up some kind of flyer to distribute to businesses within walking distance offering to fill in during vacations, or help out at busy times?

I have always gotten the impression that you are pretty computer literate. You might be able to land some work from home jobs, like in medical billing, etc.
 
#13 ·
Online menu entry is another viable endeavor. One of my neighbors with very young children does this, from home, with no fancy equipment. It allowed her to purchase a boat, with cash.

If Summer needs an emergency vet in the middle of the night because a puppy is stuck, and you do not have a car, do you plan to carry her...? Or spend even more on an emergency house call? Hope a cab company allows you to put a bleeding dog in whelp in the backseat?

Selling an adult animal is guaranteed money in hand. Projecting hypothetical profits on future unborn litters is a gamble, which may result in a loss.

I don't breed dogs. I have sat up all night helping goat does and ewes through labor, pulling bloody babies out and making sure they nurse, always prepared for the worst, which does happen. Stillbirths, reluctant mothers, stuck babies. If you can't reliably get your pregnant female animal to a vet, you need to make sure you know what you're doing.
 
#14 ·
It's great that so many people brought up the worse case scenario if he breeds his dog however, what about her? She could lose her house, dog, and become homeless on the streets. This is a sad situation that can happen to anyone, and sometimes we have to do things and make decisions that we ordinarily would not make. Obviously she has looked at every possible option and this is the last resort. I hope everything works out and she finds the solution that helps her make it until next March.
 
#18 ·
People are pointing out why this isn't a valid plan to bridge the gap in income. It's only slightly above playing the lottery in chances of working. It's really an "all or nothing" scheme.

If all works out, yes there may be enough money to bridge the gap. Otherwise, it's a lot of money invested with no pregnancy. Or with huge expenses and still no pups to sell. And, even though you have to spend money to make money, you need to be able to afford to lose all that you invest.
When you're already in a financial crisis, that isn't really a feasible plan
 
#15 ·
It's not just whelping the litter and Summer's health. It's the health and well being of every one of those pups: for life! If you bring them into the world, YOU are their safety net for the next 13 years, whether you want to be or not.

Here's a scenario we've read twenty times (or more) on the forum. Despite all the tests, a pup gets thrown genetically with bad hips...just bad luck. Or one ends up with mega-E. Or pick your life-long issue that buyers simply don't want. Bad luck happens even to good, careful breeders once in a while. Maybe another buyer lets one play too rough, maybe by fetching a ball and jumping, or maybe allows one jump out of a truck too young. A leg or carpus joint or hip gets damaged. You get blamed for both the genetic issue and the injury. Two pups are now getting returned, imperfect and needing care -- no longer small and cute, and definitely not saleable.

Maybe you refund the purchase price, maybe you don't, but either way, now you've got gangly adolescents in need of an expensive care that just showed up on your doorstep. Do you tell them to take the dogs to the pound to be euthanized? You know the right answer here, the ethical breeder answer. You also know what true BYBs do every day. Could you live with that?
 
#17 ·
Another thought:

Dog sitting and dog walking can be lucrative for an older, responsible person who is mobile -- I'd much rather hire an older person who is experienced with large dogs for those tasks than the usual teenagers who advertise.

I know a retired lady who is the most sought-after pet sitter in town (she has her pick of clients, and turns down a lot of people). She's incredible with sick dogs and senior dogs. She charges accordingly.
 
#19 ·
Stone you are intelligent and resourceful.Make a list of all possible options and something will work out.You will work through this.
 
#21 ·
I definitely agree with the suggestion to talk to the bank. That was a good one and jogged my memory.

If you are good at maintaining current payments there is a good chance they will work with you and I am glad it was mentioned. Many years ago we were in a bind [husband lost job] and could not pay a car loan on time. We talked with GMAC ( so not some small operation) and they allowed us to miss a few months and tack those payments onto the end of the payment cycle. Yes it cost us a little more but we were not taken to the cleaners. It is July and you are talking about a situation that will occur in November. I would work out a full budget and come up with a proposal. You could do that NOW before you start making plans.
 
#23 ·
I think even if you had 8 healthy pups it's the aftermath of dealing with the new puppy owners which I'm sure headaches for most responsible breeders even if there dogs are healthy and titled it is not a guarantee everything will be fine and dandy. People want there money back, puppy is not what they thought it turn out to be, health issues even if not real health issues, behavior issues due to lack of training etc. I know incredibly responsible owner who showed trained and had many titles on her incredible dogs had a few litters -hated the whole aftermath of issues of pups going to new homes even the slightest of complaints of minor issues - she just had no patience for ignorance. My only point is it is not as easy as it looks and also much patience is required.
 
#24 ·
Stonevintage, you have other options. Options, I might add, that are more realistic than breeding your dog to make some money.

I went back to school in my late 40's and got a teaching credential. I started as a first year teacher at age 51. I just ended my second year and was told that I would not be coming back next year. I was out of a job.

I applied for a part-time job walking dogs and overnight pet-sitting for an established company at the end of May and have done well. I am making decent money and I enjoy the work. It will tide me over and keep me busy until I start at my new school in August.

Your home is on the line. Now is not the time to put all your eggs in a basket that has too many variables to realistically be viable. Your dog could end up with one puppy. Or no puppies. Or you could end up with more vet bills than the puppies can pay for. To literally bet your home on being able to make a profit from one litter of puppies? In a tight time period? Don't be silly.

You have always come across as a vibrant, active person in your posts. You can totally find a part-time job that will bring in a consistent amount of money to get you through this period.
Sheilah
 
#25 ·
Not by choice.... as a last ditch effort to keep from losing my house.... yes, I'm that close..The out of funds time starts in November and will run thru February.

If I can work this out and breed Summer and sell 4 puppies for $500.00 each... I can make it until my first social security check which will come 3/1/17.
I'm sorry you have to worry like this about the future, but there might be better ways to make up for the shortage with less risk to you or the dog.

I know of people who are retired but do light house cleaning on a very part-time basis. You can be selective and busy people will value your help and pay you well. Someone else mentioned data entry computer work from home. I think for the amount of income you need, that should be very attainable.

Because you are planning ahead, I'm confident you will find the best way. Good luck.
 
#27 ·
Thank you for your posts and suggestions. Your comments are much nicer than I expected and if I were not in my position - I would also be thinking that it's a really bad idea. It is the way, the more a person gets pushed up against the wall, that bad ideas are actually considered.

At any rate, I thought about it more and the timing is the huge problem. Winter. No one wants to adopt a larger breed puppy in the middle of winter or even fall. That's why I got Summer at a reduced price (according to the breeder) - it was early fall and the she had 10 puppies on her hands and a sick husband.

So - that idea's off the table. It was not something I considered lightly, in fact the reality is that if something went wrong I would not be facing a financial loss from medical bills. When you don't have money and can't get a loan, you have to have the dog put down. That's the way it is. Would I ever forgive myself - no.

If I find a job - I won't be able to keep it for more than a week or 2 before I get fired. I have an average of 3 hemiplegic migraines per week. They come at any time and I lose half of my vision, slur my words and get partial paralysis in my hands and part of my face. That's why I've been selling online for a living - if I get stopped by one - I can work around it because I'm on my own clock. That's why I never go more than 15 minutes from my house - when one of these things hits I get shut down. The work from home stuff still requires that you time block and you have to fill your shift time. I talked to them last year, they said I needed to upgrade my computer to be considered - but I'd still be faced with the same medical problem.

I couldn't get a normal loan because no job. So I had to get the loan privately and it's written in such a way that the foreclosure process is greatly shortened. Those lengthy foreclosure proceedings you are thinking of are regulations and processes imposed on the banking industry not an individual lender. I thought that buying my house and paying it off in 4 years was the thing to do because the equity would be there if I ever needed it in an emergency - but the banks still won't lend if you don't have a job. No job - or income like Soc Sec - no loan. They are not flexible. I tried at 3 different banks.

So, here I am... owe 25k on a 150,000 house and can't access the 2-3k I need to bridge the gap of a few months. It just seems so ridiculous. What risk would they have when I am so equity heavy??? None.

I have one other guy that I can ask to borrow the money from. He's very wealthy, makes loans to people but he's one of the last people you want to deal with - for anything - he's flat out dangerous and can't be trusted. But, I have known him for 20 years and feel a little more prepared than most to deal with stuff he might try to pull.
 
#28 ·
She wants to breed her dog once. Suppose someone buys her dog then breeds her 5-7 times. Unless you pay for spay prior to sell that would also be like playing lottery. I would keep your dog. How many people saying sell your dog would sell there dog? I wouldn't. If you are going to get your dog OFA test prior to breeding you are already doing more than most other BYB do. People who pay $500.00 for a GS pup probably don't even know about OFA tests. They're buying a pet not a world champion sch or show dog. Those people are going to find a dog for 500.00 anyway may as well sell them one that at least has a chance of being healthy . Whatever you decide best of luck.
 
#49 · (Edited)
This is spot on... though I paid more for my puppy.. I didn't check if the parents were OFA tested... and neither did many of friends I have that have purchased dogs in the $500-900 range... they are just simply looking for the dog of the breed they are looking at for the best price they can find.. that's pretty much fact.. then you have others with deeper pockets that will spend $2,500 on a dog.. at that point yeah you will be checking for titles and everything else

so with that said.. it's your dog.. do what you want... go for it.. if all goes well you will get $500 easy for each puppy with papers.. some pay more than that here with no papers or with ckc which is almost the equivalent
 
#29 ·
I would not take a loan from dangerous people-stone. There are intermittent jobs where you can make your own hours like being ambassador at a store promoting products- there are agencies that hire and it's a respond if you want to do it not set hours or schedule just respond if you are interested in doing it could be as many times you want. There are other jobs-My aunt set up displays in stores which includes making her own hours as long as it got done within a certain time frame. Jobs working from home many different kinds some involving proof reading or other things. Not wise as desperate as you may feel right now not to take loans from loan sharks.
 
#30 ·
Max's breeder had 7 -8 puppies all healthy did all the testing and did not have to pay a stud fee as she did purchase the male out right and had other great breedings with him. She had a previous litter with another of her females who had 2 pups and needed a c-section very expensive- this was a wash. Sure she had more stories as I just know of these 2. You can do everything right and nothing goes right and sometimes everything goes perfect. It's a hit or miss you just need to be prepared monetarily as things do go wrong in pregnancy. She also was a technician and present a grooming business out of the home - which is another idea -grooming business-
If you had a set up. I'm not sure what grooming school costs and experience along with that but could be a fun long term goal.
 
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