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-   -   breed worthiness and picking pups early on (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/breeding-general/483570-breed-worthiness-picking-pups-early.html)

lalachka 08-27-2014 08:30 PM

breed worthiness and picking pups early on
 
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this is from another thread.

what makes a dog breed worthy in general?

how are these dogs picked out at a young age.

what do you look for before 8 weeks when you decide which pups you're going to sell and which you're keeping?

what do you look for later on when deciding who will title?

basically, which behaviors of a dog tell you about who he is?



I'm obsessed with learning to read dogs, that's why the questions. I know it won't happen here but I don't know where I can find someone who will sit around and teach me so I'm here bugging the forum :)

lalachka 08-27-2014 08:38 PM

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one more. what do people see when they see a gsd trot? to me it looks like any other dog but I'm sure that's because I don't know what to look for

also, it's amazing that people look at stacked dogs and can tell about their build and predict how they'd move. how is this done?


ETA everywhere I say 'dog' I mean gsd, not just any dog. only obsessed with gsds

Liesje 08-28-2014 09:40 AM

I don't think it's a good idea to decide a dog is breed worthy at a young age. You can definitely decide a dog is NOT breed worthy at a young age though.

Jax08 08-28-2014 10:09 AM

Knowledgeable breeders have a good idea of what a dog CAN be. But, my trainer made the comment that you never know and that's why she likes young dogs over puppies.

Seger has the pedigree to be "breed worthy". However, proving he is that is completely on me. Health checks, breed surveys, titles to prove working ability.

In his litter, there were 4 males. He was the top two working "prospects".

lalachka 08-28-2014 11:06 AM

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You know what I really want to know? Which signs tell you about the dog's character.

lalachka 08-28-2014 11:08 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jax08 (Post 5955146)
Knowledgeable breeders have a good idea of what a dog CAN be. But, my trainer made the comment that you never know and that's why she likes young dogs over puppies.

Seger has the pedigree to be "breed worthy". However, proving he is that is completely on me. Health checks, breed surveys, titles to prove working ability.

In his litter, there were 4 males. He was the top two working "prospects".

Lucky you. I wish I can get a dog like that some day just to experience it
I love my dog with all his problems and he's the highlight of my day. I'm just interested in what a well bred dog with high drives is like

lalachka 08-28-2014 11:10 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Liesje (Post 5954978)
I don't think it's a good idea to decide a dog is breed worthy at a young age. You can definitely decide a dog is NOT breed worthy at a young age though.

I was going based of lhtzl's comment in the other thread saying that she usually knows if the dog is worthy around a year or so

But since breeders sell pups at 8 weeks, how do they know which to hold back?

Like which signs tell you about the dog?

Jax08 08-28-2014 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalachka (Post 5955385)
Lucky you. I wish I can get a dog like that some day just to experience it
I love my dog with all his problems and he's the highlight of my day. I'm just interested in what a well bred dog with high drives is like


???? I'm not sure how to take this. Maybe I'm wrong but there seems to be some snark in your comment. I was trying to explain that

1. I don't think a breeder knows for sure and to illustrate that I mentioned by trainer's comment on how you just never know.
and
2. that just because the dog has a "breed worthy" pedigree doesn't mean it should be bred without the necessary testing, breed survey, titling (all of which are SV standards prior to breeding)

I have an idea what my breeder was looking for when evaluating the puppies for working vs. pet but I don't think I'll comment further.

Since there are very few experienced breeders, and it doesn't sound like you want any anecdotal comments, maybe you should just PM Lisa and ask her.

wolfstraum 08-28-2014 11:21 AM

I watch pups from early on.....heck, from out of the sac! Food drive, tenacity, pushiness all can be observed with nursing babies. By the time they are 5 weeks old, I have a pretty good idea who the more dominant pushy pups are, and which are less pushy....By 8 weeks, after doing separation/strange place/object exercises, I know which are going to pet homes and which are staying/working....not to say that "pet" pups are not still capable of doing work...in my As....the "pet pup" as pronounced by a training director of a club, ended up 6 or 7 times Schh3. In G's, the male that was a bit lazier and just a cool personality is several times IPO3 and has V rated in every phase under tough judges. In K's I had 3 males...all three showed signs that said they would be good working prospects...the "pet" home has a very very strong male who is treated by respect by the TD/Helpers in her club...not a sport/prey dog at all, and a force to be reckoned with. But he was the least dominant/pushy of the 3 males....the most pushy is here after being returned when owners had a baby....another board member has the 3rd and he will be titled maybe this winter/next spring.

It is understanding what you expect from the genetics/pedigree, what you have, ie how it is expressed, and what your priorities are in a home. Then it is up to the x-ray gods, and the owners to take that potential and go forward. My Komet was sold to a promising working home...but they faded and as a working couple with a new baby...with the husband traveling alot...they could not do him justice even as a pet and gave him back...if I can get my body to work enough, I will get him titled....albeit he is much more talented than I can possibly utilize competitively...and that is after evaluation from people who have been competitive on a National/World level - not just a breeder's rose colored glasses.

Lee

martemchik 08-28-2014 11:22 AM

You can test pups at around that age. And the more time you spend with them, the more you see which ones have certain levels of drive. Like…throwing a ball or another prey object and letting them go after it. You see which ones are the bossy ones in the litter, which ones like to stir up trouble, which ones are the ones “winning” the wrestling matches. Which ones are leaders, which ones are followers.

There is also a lot to do with the interaction with the humans. Some dogs will follow people around right away, others won’t. Some will offer certain behaviors (even at that age) while others are more standoffish and independent. So then it depends on what you want…which of the dogs fits the kind of dog you want to train and which dog has the drives that you want to see/develop for whatever it is you’re interested in.


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