Psa Titles as breeding titles - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 03:30 PM
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I'm one of those that know so much that I give little thought to titles but more so to genetics and experience/knowledge of the breeder. ....at the end of the day, what you consistently breed/own speaks volumes about whether the way you determine breed worthy is valid. The thing I struggle with is defining the people who are continually lucky doing things their way.
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post #12 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-24-2014, 02:28 PM
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I have titled the same dog in both IPO and PSA twice, and working on my third. I believe PSA is a better test of a dogs environmental stability, civility, substance and confidence in protection but believe IPO covers a broader spectrum in terms of the three phases.

You learn a great deal about an IPO dog when you transition to PSA...both good and bad. I believe PSA exposes more of the dog than IPO protection (I can write a book). But I believe a test that includes nose work is important too. IPO (even if the dog can be trained sufficiently to obtain a title) the work put into IPO tells the handler a little more. Tracking is difficult if the dog doesn't have good food drive, obedience and retrieves are more challenging with a dog who doesn't have sufficient toy drive.

It is much more than knowing if a dog will bite for real or can obtain high scores. It is in the training that teaches you the most.
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post #13 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 08:33 AM
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@Warrior.....though I agree with pretty much everything you just wrote, I must remind you that in discussing breeding or breed worthy, I have yet to see a dog that can pass the title or the training through their sperm. In judging worth of individual dog, I often give much value to performances or titles in the higher venues of sport or PSA.....but it won't change the genetics when I look at the dog from breeding perspective. But remember,, I am very outdated in my approaches!
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post #14 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 11:25 AM
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@ Cliff. Agreed but if folks don't test genetics with training and titles how do you accurately evaluate?
If a dog has zero titles in the closest four generations can you accurately assess their pedigrees? Know their strengths and weaknesses?

I have an imported Czech dog who I washed from PSA because of environmental sensitivity. But he has excellent drives and is doing good in IPO (where the most fields look and helpers behave the same) He isn't breed worthy and you probably couldn't tell that from his pedigree.

so while a dog can't train and pass a title with his sperm, the training/title will eliminate those who are not worthy JMO. ;-)
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post #15 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 11:52 AM
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Send me his pedigree in pm....let me see.
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post #16 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 11:56 AM
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post #17 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 12:44 PM
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so while a dog can't train and pass a title with his sperm, the training/title will eliminate those who are not worthy JMO. ;-)

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post #18 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 07:51 PM
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But it will also, make dogs breed worthy who really aren't , so I'm not sure the value of the point.
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post #19 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 07:54 PM
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and that's why I need you ;-) haha
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post #20 of 45 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 07:58 PM
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But it will also, make dogs breed worthy who really aren't , so I'm not sure the value of the point.
I've realized "breed worthy" is the most subjective term that gets thrown around on this forum.

Each one of us is looking for something different, and when we find it, we get it no matter what others say. So no matter what the pedigree says, I'm sure someone out there can find a fault in it, and no matter how high of a score the dog gets at a PSA/SDA/IPO trial, someone will still watch it work and find an issue and tell you why they wouldn't breed that dog.
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