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-   -   Breeding more for the moderate. (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/breeding-general/464585-breeding-more-moderate.html)

Jack's Dad 06-26-2014 11:09 PM

Breeding more for the moderate.
 
Why don't more breeders shoot for the golden middle? More for moderate drives and higher thresholds.
Seems to me that would help the breed considerably.

Is it because too many WL breeders are concerned about IPO?
Too many SL breeders for looks and maybe gait.

With both having too narrow a focus.

I'm not talking about GSDs being bred specifically to be pets or as some say Goldens in a GSD body.

Most people don't want the bad nerves and health problems that plague the breed. Don't a lot of them come from a too tight and narrow focus on specific traits?

What's the matter with middle of the road dogs? That's what most people need and want.

robk 06-26-2014 11:15 PM

I would say there are more balanced dogs out there than you think. I think you hear about the nut cases more because they are more dramatic. My female is quite boring. She has zero drama. Not dog aggressive. Not fear reactive. calm around town and in the presence of strangers. Take her to IPO and she fires up nicely then leaves the field with no fan fair. I think a lot of dogs are that way and you don't hear about them because there is really nothing of note to talk about.

David Winners 06-26-2014 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robk (Post 5696529)
I would say there are more balanced dogs out there than you think. I think you hear about the nut cases more because they are more dramatic. My female is quite boring. She has zero drama. Not dog aggressive. Not fear reactive. calm around town and in the presence of strangers. Take her to IPO and she fires up nicely then leaves the field with no fan fair. I think a lot of dogs are that way and you don't hear about them because there is really nothing of note to talk about.

Except that they are good dogs : )

David Winners

Jack's Dad 06-26-2014 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robk (Post 5696529)
I would say there are more balanced dogs out there than you think. I think you hear about the nut cases more because they are more dramatic. My female is quite boring. She has zero drama. Not dog aggressive. Not fear reactive. calm around town and in the presence of strangers. Take her to IPO and she fires up nicely then leaves the field with no fan fair. I think a lot of dogs are that way and you don't hear about them because there is really nothing of note to talk about.

I do think those involved in IPO tend to see it the way you do but you are surrounded by people who are training regularly and have the ongoing help of others.

In thread after thread we hear the problems. Reactive, lunges, barks at everything, hides behind me, hates other dogs, doesn't like people, is not good around kids and then there are the health threads.

I see issues with GSDs in public all the time. Matter of fact I've never seen one in public that I would have wanted. Some of it I'm sure is the way the owners handle and do/don't train but a good portion must be genetic.

When I was growing up about the only seeing eye dogs anyone ever saw were GSD. Very few now.

Lucy Dog 06-26-2014 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack's Dad (Post 5696609)
In thread after thread we hear the problems. Reactive, lunges, barks at everything, hides behind me, hates other dogs, doesn't like people, is not good around kids and then there are the health threads.

I'm sure some do, but I'd be willing to bet a high majority of these type of dogs come from breeders who aren't breeding for anything at all. They probably think they are breeding for a "moderate" dog, but really don't have a clue. Just breeding x purebred to y purebred for cute puppies at $500 a pop.

wolfstraum 06-26-2014 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack's Dad (Post 5696609)
I do think those involved in IPO tend to see it the way you do but you are surrounded by people who are training regularly and have the ongoing help of others.

In thread after thread we hear the problems. Reactive, lunges, barks at everything, hides behind me, hates other dogs, doesn't like people, is not good around kids and then there are the health threads.

I see issues with GSDs in public all the time. Matter of fact I've never seen one in public that I would have wanted. Some of it I'm sure is the way the owners handle and do/don't train but a good portion must be genetic.

When I was growing up about the only seeing eye dogs anyone ever saw were GSD. Very few now.


I think most of the dogs to which are you referring are NOT bred for/by people in sport....you have to look at the numbers of GSDs bred in the US and the working line dogs bred by people who train is probably the smallest percentage of GSDs bred in this country. AKC does not publish the numbers any more ....but a few years ago, when GSDs were in 4th place - there were something like 40,000 - FORTY THOUSAND - litters of GSD pups registered in the US that year )Labs were first with OVER 100,000 litters that year) - now GSDs are in 2nd place......I bet the total percentage of working line, show line and ASL breeders make up around a quarter of those litters!! And the rest are puppy mill/back yard and just plain random breeders who think they can make some easy bucks because they own an AKC papered dog! And what you see on most forums are going to be owners of pups from the latter group...people who "just want a pet" and buy an inexpensive pup from the local paper, post it at the grocery store, craigs list etc....

Yes - I agree - most of these problems you mention ARE genetic....but I also know that almost every random GSD I see or meet owners of out in public are NOT from "reputable breeders" - I rarely see people out and about with dogs from good, well thought out breedings of any type.

Lee

Doc 06-27-2014 12:28 AM

Out of all the show and sport litters, what happens to the pups that can't cut the mustard? Do they end up in homes where owners have no clue how to handle the genetic base that these dogs carry? Or are they culled or placed some place they should never be in? Don't blame everything on breeders that don't title, show, or spend hours and tons of money training in a sporting venue for the problems in the breed today. Good grief, there is plenty of blame to spread around.

Vandal 06-27-2014 12:29 AM

Quote:

I rarely see people out and about with dogs from good, well thought out breedings of any type.
I agree. I board dogs and it is a rarity for me to be impressed with any of the many GSDs that stay here. I almost never ask where they got the dog....because I know where they got it.

Blitzkrieg1 06-27-2014 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc (Post 5696889)
Out of all the show and sport litters, what happens to the pups that can't cut the mustard? Do they end up in homes where owners have no clue how to handle the genetic base that these dogs carry? Or are they culled or placed some place they should never be in? Don't blame everything on breeders that don't title, show, or spend hours and tons of money training in a sporting venue for the problems in the breed today. Good grief, there is plenty of blame to spread around.

How about 99% of the blame?

simba405 06-27-2014 12:36 AM

Very small percentage of people would pay 1000+ for a pet. This forum is not a good consensus of GSD ownership. Facebook groups are a better gauge. All I see on there are badly bred dogs with a few nice shepherd thrown in.


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