Can my Sable produce Black and Tans? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-18-2014, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 10
Can my Sable produce Black and Tans?

Hello there. I am New to this forum. Let me start by saying I do not plan on breeding my GSD, but I am curious about how the genetics work with their coat patterns. Genetics of all animals is fascinating to me.

I recently aquired a male Sable German Shepherd pup as a family companion dog. His name is Ruger . He is currently 9 weeks.

Rugers mother was a Sable.

Rugers father was a Bi Color.

Ruger and all 6 of his litter mates were all Sables. The breeder told me that Ruger's mother always produced litters of 100% Sables.

What does this mean for the genes Ruger carries? Is it possible he could only carry the sable gene and only produce Sables no matter what he bred to? Or because his father was a Bicolor would that mean he definitely carries that gene and could produce blk/tans or bicolors if he was bred to the right female?

Thanks for any information. I breed Ball Pythons as a side business and knowing their genetics is very important. Just hoping to understand Rugers genetics, and GSD genetics in general, a little better.

Thanks in advance,
Landon Baier
Landob123 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-18-2014, 09:10 AM
Zombie Queen Moderator
 
NancyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 15,938
This should help. If Ruger's mother produced a lot of pups and 100% were sables the odds are petty good she was sable x sable.

Ruger did not get sable from his father clearly. so he could be sable x bicolor or sable x black.

So there would be a chance if bred to a black and tan that he would produce a black and tan, of course there could be other things...........because the black and tan dog may carry bicolor or black

Don't let the "breeding announcements" throw you. The link is to Ehret's color chart page


Ehret German Shepherds - Breeding Announcements

Nancy



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-NAPWDA Certified Cadaver Dog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Air Scent Dog in Training
Waiting at the Bridge: Grim (NAPWDA), Cyra, Toby, Oscar, Linus, Rainbow, Arlo, & Waggles

Last edited by NancyJ; 01-18-2014 at 09:13 AM.
NancyJ is offline  
post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-18-2014, 09:27 AM
Senior Member
 
MrsFergione's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Fort Sill, Oklahoma
Posts: 238
If he has a black & tan recessive gene and whoever he is bred to is either black & tan or has a black & tan recessive gene then it is possible.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	GSDcolorGenes.jpg
Views:	149
Size:	20.6 KB
ID:	167321  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05.11.13
MrsFergione is offline  
post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-18-2014, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 10
Thanks for the responses. I had found this chart and was working on 100% understanding it. Which is why I asked here. So basically Ruger is a Sable herterozygous for bi-color or black? So if bred to a visual B & T or black, or a dog that is also het for those genes, there is a chance he could produce them? I read that Sable was dominant over all other genes, just wasnt sure if black and tan was actually recessive.
Landob123 is offline  
post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-18-2014, 11:44 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,130
Simple terms, make a punnett square and see. So more than likely your dog has one sable gene and one of something else. The other dog can potentially be B and T on both. So therefore each individual pup would have a 50% chance of being either a B and T or whatever the other gene your dog carries and depending on if that gene is dominant or recesive to the B and T saddle back.

Remember this is on a pup by pup basis, so its not like out of 10 puppies 50% will be sable and 50% will be something else. Each puppy is its own genetic punnett square and so if each dog takes the sable gene, you could have 10 sables.
martemchik is offline  
post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-18-2014, 04:11 PM
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 19,496
My sable puppy had a sable mother but two black and tan brothers. My dog, the father, is black and red. So, the sable mother must've had a recessive for black and tan (as I understand it).

Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)

Liesje is offline  
post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-18-2014, 05:46 PM
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,708
I thought the gene for black & tan was the same as the gene in black & red GSDs & that the red color resulted from 'intensity' genes. Is this incorrect? IF correct, couldn't the sable mother have had a recessive for black, bi-color or black & tan?
RubyTuesday is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome