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Old 07-07-2013, 09:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Titles and Breeding - Are they important

This is something I was wondering about. There is much discussion on breeding dogs having titles to help determine temperament, stability, and breeding worthiness. What are the titles you would as a breeder look for in a dog you would breed. I have copied some info from the AKC and Schutzhund sites on a couple of basic titles for reference. I personally would prefer a SCH or IPO title but some are ok with Obedience titles only.

Canine Good Citizen (CGC):
the CGC Program is designed to reward dogs who have good manners at home and in the community.

Rally:
The main objective of rally is to produce dogs that have been trained to behave in the home, in public places, and in the presence of other dogs, in a manner that will reflect positively on the sport of rally at all times and under all conditions.

CD:
Novice Class demonstrates good canine companion skills such as heeling, both with and without a leash, coming when called, standing for a simple physical examination, and staying in both a sit and a down position with a group of dogs.
In the Novice Class, dogs earn an AKC Companion Dog (CD) title after receiving three qualifying scores under two different judges.

BH:
A passerby will run by the team fairly closely or even cut the team off. The dog must not show aggression or lose composure. Then a bicyclist will overtake the team from behind, passing the team from the side of the dog. The bicyclist will ring his bicycle bell or honk a horn several times in passing.
Other diversions such as train or car sounds will often be used in this exercise. Opening an umbrella above or near the dog is a common test.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Absolutely they're important, they're proof from a outside source that the dog is capable of doing something that interests the potential buyer.

Two great threads, they're both very long but well worth the time:

Titles vs Certifications (working type)

Titles???!M
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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as a buyer i like knowing the parents are titled and passed all of the
medical test because knowing the parents are titled and sound means
my pup will probably be sound and easy to train as well. plus i like
the fact that i can lay down the snub when in conversation. you
know when someone compliments your dog or ask "where did you
get your dog" you can casually say " Pou Pou is a blah blah dog.
i bought him from tah tah. he's an import." most people won't know
what you're talking about but you can still say it, bragging rights.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:44 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Like all absolutes, there is always an exception here and there....

I have done and have had done AKC and IPO/Sch titles on my dogs....I bred one female without a title, and titled her afterwards...she produced the most consistant litter I have had....almost exactly what I was looking for with the exception of depth of pigment....

I have a 4 year old female that I have done alot of work with, she lives with friends who I could not deny her to at 8 months old due to personal circumstances, even though I own her and plan to breed her...they meant well, but did not follow with keeping up training, I had a disabling car accident, and she NEEDS to be bred because of her age....she has been worked by several well respected helpers...on various fields, she is show rated and hip/elbow certifed....I will breed her without titles and still hope to do some down the road as I recently started with a new helper who is very good....

You have to look at the total picture....a breeder consistantly breeding titled dogs who does have the experience to make an exception, or a breeder importing all the breeding stock which changes on a rotating basis, or a breeder whose breeding stock is bought as pups from titled parents but never does anything but breed or a breeder using homegrown stock with no credentials in sight for generations....

The breeder making the exception with an untitled dog may be very preferable to that just importing, breeding and reselling and importing another batch of females


So there are several scenerios where I would consider the exceptional untitled female preferable!

Lee
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Yes, I know there are people around here that breed and/or buy dogs that don't come from titled lines or temperament tests. To me if a breeder isn't working their dogs in SOME avenue, I just really don't think they can say that they really know what they've got...no offense, just my opinion from experience. I also don't think that the grandparents being titled holds a lot of weight if the parents of the litter aren't. I won't go to a breeder who speaks of wonderful grandparents, but then doesn't work the parents. Plenty of non-breed worthy dogs come from great, titled, parents....if that makes send.

I also think there is another important piece to the puzzle and that's the knowledge of the buyer. I have seen plenty of working dogs and sports dogs that are nervy and not very solid, but are being titled, worked, and bred. I also know trainers that were paid to title dogs for breeders that should never be bred, but it was their job, so they titled the dog and moved on. As a buyer I would take a knowledgeable friend with me to actually see the parents in action. A title on a website is not enough, for me. i would want to actually watch a video of the dog trialing, or better yet, see the dogs in person, working and training.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:52 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I also want to add, if I personally know the breeder, have seen them work dogs, and trust their instinct and judgement I may get a pup from a breeder who hasn't yet titled the parents. However, I can only think of one person I know that I would do that with. And even then, I would still be hesitant. But I would have to know them very well and I would want them to be knowledgeable in working dogs and have titled or put working dogs into careers.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfstraum View Post
Like all absolutes, there is always an exception here and there....

I have done and have had done AKC and IPO/Sch titles on my dogs....I bred one female without a title, and titled her afterwards...she produced the most consistant litter I have had....almost exactly what I was looking for with the exception of depth of pigment....

I have a 4 year old female that I have done alot of work with, she lives with friends who I could not deny her to at 8 months old due to personal circumstances, even though I own her and plan to breed her...they meant well, but did not follow with keeping up training, I had a disabling car accident, and she NEEDS to be bred because of her age....she has been worked by several well respected helpers...on various fields, she is show rated and hip/elbow certifed....I will breed her without titles and still hope to do some down the road as I recently started with a new helper who is very good....

You have to look at the total picture....a breeder consistantly breeding titled dogs who does have the experience to make an exception, or a breeder importing all the breeding stock which changes on a rotating basis, or a breeder whose breeding stock is bought as pups from titled parents but never does anything but breed or a breeder using homegrown stock with no credentials in sight for generations....

The breeder making the exception with an untitled dog may be very preferable to that just importing, breeding and reselling and importing another batch of females


So there are several scenerios where I would consider the exceptional untitled female preferable!

Lee
Agree, thanks for putting that more eloquently than I. Lol
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfstraum View Post
You have to look at the total picture....a breeder consistantly breeding titled dogs who does have the experience to make an exception, or a breeder importing all the breeding stock which changes on a rotating basis, or a breeder whose breeding stock is bought as pups from titled parents but never does anything but breed or a breeder using homegrown stock with no credentials in sight for generations....

The breeder making the exception with an untitled dog may be very preferable to that just importing, breeding and reselling and importing another batch of females
Excellent points Lee. Agree.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Interesting how things change over time and depends on who is doing it-lol
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Personally I like to see dogs who are working in the "real world", not just titles. A dog can be managed and get titles and not have a great temperament, so I don't feel titles alone necessarily tell that much about the dogs.
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