Age For Retiring

[bethany.cole2013]

I was just wondering, but at what age is it a common thing for breeders to retire their females and stop breeding them? Also, does anyone do consecutive litters? I had read a little while ago that it was actually somewhat beneficial to a female to breed her with consecutive litters, but I don't know how much faith I would put in this.

[qbchottu]

Depends on the female, and how she produces. For breedings at older ages, depends on the health of the female, and the reason for the breeding

[Liesje]

I believe each heat cycle where the female does not become pregnant somehow degrades the uterus but there are obvious risks with pregnancy as well as all the other reasons to breed or not breed, so I'm not sure if it's all that "beneficial". Whether or not the bitch is bred back to back would depend on the individual bitch and the breeding. For example, if the bitch bounced back after the previous litter, is a good mother, healthy, and say there's a limited opportunity to breed her to the stud that would be the best pairing, then I don't think the breeder should wait because of some arbitrary rule. But breeding back to back to back.... I don't know. I think most breeders who do a back to back breeding will then give the bitch some time off.

[bethany.cole2013]

Originally Posted by Liesje

I believe each heat cycle where the female does not become pregnant somehow degrades the uterus but there are obvious risks with pregnancy as well as all the other reasons to breed or not breed, so I'm not sure if it's all that "beneficial". Whether or not the bitch is bred back to back would depend on the individual bitch and the breeding. For example, if the bitch bounced back after the previous litter, is a good mother, healthy, and say there's a limited opportunity to breed her to the stud that would be the best pairing, then I don't think the breeder should wait because of some arbitrary rule. But breeding back to back to back.... I don't know. I think most breeders who do a back to back breeding will then give the bitch some time off.

This is what I had read; it degraded the uterus and some people were calling it beneficial. It seems like the majority that do back to back breedings will skip the next heat cycle to allow her body to recouperate. If you guys were breeding, what would be the general age that you think you would retire females?

[wolfstraum]

The source of that information - widely spread and misused!!!! - is Dr. Hutchinson, in Cleveland, a very very well known repo specialist. He tells clients that quite often, and I personally was told that...

His version is that you should breed 3 or 4 litters back to back and then spay the female...by then you should have what you want from her....

Unfortunately SOME people think it gives them license to breed a female every single heat of her life until she cannot produce pups....I know of breeders who do this (and promoted here often!!!!) breeding these poor girls who live in a run their whole life...when they come up empty after 2 or 3 tries, they are 'retired' to a pet home....the last two I knew of died within a year of being placed...just worn out IMO....

Dr. Hutchinson does not endorse that, as I asked him specifically - he said that as the female aged, she would have smaller litters, and be at higher risk.

Personally, it depends on the female - and how many litters she has had....I have had 1 to 4 litters from my females - I have tried frozen a few times and never had litters though....I know I wish I had had another litter or two from Kyra, Csabre and Basha. But I would not breed a female for 8 or 9 litters.....

And everyone who thinks that getting a dog from Europe because the breeders are "superior" - think about this....many many many big name kennels breed every single heat until the females cannot produce....Both Belgium and Denmark have limits on what you can breed....in Denmark, a female can have 3 litters - PERIOD. In Belgium, you can do a back to back - but then must wait one year before breeding again. That is something AKC could do to stem the production of BYB too.

Lee

[lhczth]

Age depends on the condition of the female.

Back to back is not harmful as long as the female bounces back easily from her last litter. The uterus is damaged every time a female comes into heat so, like Dr. Hutchinson says, better to breed them back to back a few times when young and then spay them. This reduces the bitches risks of Pyometritis which increases as she ages (and the reason why I spay all my females eventually). As Lee points out, though, this is not condoning nor saying it is healthy for a bitch to be bred at every heat cycle until she is warn out of dead.

The most litters I have had are 3 out of one female. I had considered doing a 4th with Vala, but after her c-section, I couldn't bring myself to do it. I have never done a back to back. Considered it with Nike, but when she had pups she would take another 7 months to come back into heat and tended to recover quickly.

[bethany.cole2013]

Originally Posted by wolfstraum

The source of that information - widely spread and misused!!!! - is Dr. Hutchinson, in Cleveland, a very very well known repo specialist. He tells clients that quite often, and I personally was told that...

His version is that you should breed 3 or 4 litters back to back and then spay the female...by then you should have what you want from her....

Unfortunately SOME people think it gives them license to breed a female every single heat of her life until she cannot produce pups....I know of breeders who do this (and promoted here often!!!!) breeding these poor girls who live in a run their whole life...when they come up empty after 2 or 3 tries, they are 'retired' to a pet home....the last two I knew of died within a year of being placed...just worn out IMO....

Dr. Hutchinson does not endorse that, as I asked him specifically - he said that as the female aged, she would have smaller litters, and be at higher risk.

Personally, it depends on the female - and how many litters she has had....I have had 1 to 4 litters from my females - I have tried frozen a few times and never had litters though....I know I wish I had had another litter or two from Kyra, Csabre and Basha. But I would not breed a female for 8 or 9 litters.....

And everyone who thinks that getting a dog from Europe because the breeders are "superior" - think about this....many many many big name kennels breed every single heat until the females cannot produce....Both Belgium and Denmark have limits on what you can breed....in Denmark, a female can have 3 litters - PERIOD. In Belgium, you can do a back to back - but then must wait one year before breeding again. That is something AKC could do to stem the production of BYB too.

Lee

I agree that it's misused sometimes. I also agree that if you are going to breed back to back give the poor gal a rest for at least a good year. I've also been involved in the horse world and the breeder that I was associated with would breed one foal and then give the mare the entire next year off from breeding. His mares were in impeccable condition and he always produced very good quality foals as well. I didn't know if this was common practice in the dog world also among breeders to give their females a long rest period in between litters or if the consensus bred back to back to back. Thank you, Lee, for the insight.

[selzer]

I think we look at dogs through the eyes of people sometimes. Breeding back to back with a dog is NOT like a woman having children 1 year apart. And some do. But For women, you are pregnant for 9 months, not nine weeks. And then you may nurse for 2 years, not 8 weeks. And then you are responsible for the progeny for 18 years or 30 years or more, not 8 weeks.

A bitch should be bred ONLY if she is in excellent health. That should be the indicator. But as they get older, a good breeder will look at their bitch and wonder, should this be her last litter.

I think the age of retirement is dependent on the bitch's health first, and what kind of mother she is.