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Old 01-16-2013, 11:22 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I can't say I agree abakerr. The average person should NOT have to do "research" on dogs for a year to find a decent dog. It's one thing if you want to compete in sports/show, then yeah I get it, but for the average person? I tried for 6 months and still did not end up with a healthy dog and I considered myself dog savvy and asked tons of people for their opinions.

For anyone "just getting into" GSDs there's just no possible way to gain information about lines that took breeders decades to obtain. It's even more impossible with all the misinformation that is floating around. Strangers who see my GSD, 9 times out of 10, will tell me how glad they are that my shepherd isn't so "sloped" and how the "slope contributes to HD", "GSDs are all mean", blah blah blah. It's ridiculous. I don't even respond anymore to those comments; I just nod my head and smile because I can't be bothered to explain again for the millionth time.
Are we talking temperament qualities or health problems of the breed in this thread?

Regardless of how much research people do on a bloodline or cross, its foolish to say that they are somehow immune to the possibility of variability and I hope that wasn't the underlying tone of my previous post. There's always room for the opportunity of a thin nerved dog to crop up in a litter of projected good nerves, just as there is always room for the opportunity of bad hips to crop up in a litter of projected good hips. This type of unpredictability is not limited to dogs, this is life. I like to think that by doing your research, you minimize ( but certainly not eliminate) the risks involved and stack the odds in your favor. Do more research, better your odds. Most of the time it works out, sometimes it simply doesn't. That said, I feel like variability can be a two way street... Sometimes the most well balanced, stable, and healthy pet shepherd a person claims to have ever had has come from untitled and unregistered byb dogs found in the local paper. The odds are not favorable for this type of outcome under these circumstances but I'de be a liar to say its unheard of. Oh, the possibility in a world of possibilities.

On a more specific note, I remember the kennel/ bloodlines your dog came out of when you initially posted him. If you don't mind me asking, H/D aside (and btw I remember how severe his X-rays were... Poor guy), how do you feel his temperament as an adult matches up with what you expected when you were considering the bloodlines?
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:29 PM   #32 (permalink)
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This is not 100% true all of the time. I'm not a lazy person and when I decided I wanted another dog I did go to craigslist and happened to find my GSD and yes she was under $300. Yes I might have got lucky, but she is one heck of a dog. Her temperament is what its suppose to be per the standard. I did my research afterward and was shocked at what some dogs were like. The GSD club by me has nothing but dogs that are aggressive, and both my dog and I looked at them like they were crazy. I have never gone back because I didn't want my dog around dogs like that. I have put a lot of time in to my dog and I couldn't be prouder of her. That is not laziness, it was a choice.
Yeah...but its true MOST of the time. I'm not judging you or your dog. My dog wasn't much more than $300. The only thing I cared about was working line and AKC registration when I got him. I, like you, got lucky. He's got an amazing temperament and is willing to do anything for me.

As to the comment about the temperament on the AKC website. Most of the dogs I see fit that description. I know we always judge dogs based on drive or what not...but who really knows which dogs would herd all day or do some other type of work all day. We don't allow our dogs to do that so who knows if they have it in them? Sure...they can't all be police dogs. But that's not the world we live in, we live in a world where 99% of dogs are pets.

But most of the dogs at my club have fine temperaments. They live full, happy lives in their families, and we don't generally have to deal with any kind of aggression issues. Some of these dogs can't pass the GSDCA temperament test because they won't walk over this, or that, but in general they are very good family pets.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:54 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I saw an awful lot of nervy GSD back in the early 80's. Heck, my father never wanted one when we were growing up because he didn't trust them and felt they were mean and dangerous (I am a child of the 60's and 70's). He is a dog person and loves dogs. I am not sure if the problem has gotten worse or if we are just now far more exposed to the problems because the internet and these message boards have broadened our world. I had to look at a lot of litters and talk to a number of breeders to find my first dog.

What I do see now is it is far harder to find good solid dogs for work and dogs with correct GSD temperament.
I've often wondered about this, are any of these problems really new? It also seems to me that every breed has these types of issues. I have been researching Aussies lately and there seems to be similar problems in that breed as well, people breeding for niches. You just need to connect with a breeder that likes and breeds for the qualities that you like. GSDs have a very obvious split between show and working, but that spilt is present these days in every working breed.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:32 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I found this article one night, it was written in 1920 by Jay Hall. Besides having one of the earliest GSD breed standards (very interesting) he also said this (among other things)
The well-bred Shepherd untrained for police use is an admirable companion, loyal, affectionate, well mannered, obedient and in no way savage or solitary.
If you have time read the article (not very long) and see what you think. I think it shows how people (not all) perceive the breed today as compared to early on.

http://www.oldandsold.com/articles04/dogs65.shtml


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Old 01-17-2013, 12:41 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I personally see the dogs getting more and more solid/stronger with sure temperaments as time goes. It's like comparing a 1920 automobile to a 2010 one in terms of performance and reliability, there is no match. But the good news is that if you still want a 1920 performance/reliability animal, they are still available.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:47 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Very interesting Whiteshepherds.

I didn't see anything about fear aggression or submissive peeing in there.
Guess it wasn't excepted then.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:52 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
I don't see too many issues...I do see dogs that aren't up to MY standard when it comes to drive or temperament, but I wouldn't say they're problem dogs. The problem dogs are the ones that people are just plain too lazy to do any research on. They go to their local paper, craigslist, or whatever and find the first dog under $300.
Not necessarily. My dog had issues (reactivity, food allergies, etc) and she originally came from what was supposedly a good/reputable breeder, was purchased as a breeding and Sch prospect as a pup (not by me, I got her later). I've since heard other issues from people who got dogs from them, and there were problems with the breeder also (like not getting her papers). This is not a BYB or someone you find in the newspaper.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:34 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Honestly, IT IS THE FORUM!
It's not the breed, it's the FORUM.
All those doomsday predictions are going seriously on my nerves. Yeah, there are bad dogs out there, there are horrible breeders but that is why every breed.
A forum is a small melting pot but it doesn't necessarily represent the German Shepherd in the entire world, because many people, that have a solid GSD will never even show up on a Forum like this one.

The breed is nowhere near doing as bad as everybody makes it sound because I, on the other hand, don't know about any of these kind of Shepherds that are portrayed on this forum, in my whole life I maybe met two or three of these type of dogs. So either people are just smarter about how they are managing them or the hype about downtalking the breed and producing something outlandish, is going above and beyond. There is no such thing as the perfect dog. It's a living being and not a machine. If you want something that doesn't react to anything at all, then get a stuffed puppet!

So don't let the Forum warp your view on the breed like it did with mine on cops shooting dogs.

Last edited by Mrs.K; 01-17-2013 at 04:38 AM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:18 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mrs.K View Post
Honestly, IT IS THE FORUM!
It's not the breed, it's the FORUM.
All those doomsday predictions are going seriously on my nerves. Yeah, there are bad dogs out there, there are horrible breeders but that is why every breed.
A forum is a small melting pot but it doesn't necessarily represent the German Shepherd in the entire world, because many people, that have a solid GSD will never even show up on a Forum like this one.

The breed is nowhere near doing as bad as everybody makes it sound because I, on the other hand, don't know about any of these kind of Shepherds that are portrayed on this forum, in my whole life I maybe met two or three of these type of dogs. So either people are just smarter about how they are managing them or the hype about downtalking the breed and producing something outlandish, is going above and beyond. There is no such thing as the perfect dog. It's a living being and not a machine. If you want something that doesn't react to anything at all, then get a stuffed puppet!

So don't let the Forum warp your view on the breed like it did with mine on cops shooting dogs.
Exactly. This forum is mostly dog owners are posting either behavior issues or health issues.


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Old 01-17-2013, 08:07 AM   #40 (permalink)
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there is good and bad in every breed , and every breed tends to change as the years go on , because you have breeders (new & old) who have changed their ideas of what that breed should be.

Honestly, I can probably name 5-6 + breeders off the top of my head that I would purchase a dog from, sight unseen and "know" I would get what I wanted. Some are on this forum , some are not.

I really don't think it's hard to find a good stable german shepherd, obviously research IS involved, but knowing what "you" (general you) want, being able to trust that breeder will pick what's right for your situation is key.

While there are alot who post here with behavioral, health issues, they are seeking answers and that's what a forum is about correct?

You can advise people on where / how to go about purchasing a puppy, in the end they are going to do what they want to do.
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