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Old 01-03-2013, 09:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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yr out of line if you are saying the breeders somehow did wrong, this happened very quickly and while you would be saying soothing things like "push it out, push it out." the pups would have been torn to shreds.
They are obviously backyard breeders and inexperienced ones at that. Selzer has more experience whelping than half the people I know....don't come on here for advice/questions than put down the person with the most experience and correct answer!
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It takes hours for a dam to deliver a litter of pups, so at some point the breeders really should have realized that there was something going wrong in the way she was acting and intervened. Your description of her behavior is completely abnormal. It is possible had they helped to get the pups nursing, rather than allowing the dam to hide from them (even if they had to hold her down and muzzle her for the pups to nurse) that things would have turned out different. Nursing releases many of the hormones that trigger the maternal instinct and get a bitch's brain in the right frame of mind to properly care for her litter. This can be especially important if it is a first time mother. So had there been earlier intervention before things may have turned out much better. Or perhaps they wouldn't. Some females just don't have good mothering instinct. Almost like something isn't wired correctly in their brain. They may be perfectly normal and well temperamented in other respects but be horrible mothers.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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How old is the bitch?

Just because Mother Nature gave them a uterus doesn't mean that every female makes a perfect mother. Some just DO NOT.

I would suggest they spay that bitch and take a serious look into her background. Did this happen to any other bitches from that litter? From litters from that Sire or Dam (with different mates)?

i do not have the info to answer those questions. i would guess that the owner would not be wanting to see anything like that again. the sire (of the female) is a well accomplished sport dog that some members here know very well and is a stud (now retired) of one of the most respected kennels in the states and has been spoken about in the best of terms on this forum. the sire of the pups is from one of the most prolific breeder of gsd in modern times altho i do not know how far back in the ped this sire is, he is Fero - again not sure how far back actual Fero is.

i choose not to disclose names of kennels.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:10 PM   #14 (permalink)
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So should horrible mothers be bred?
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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"... It is possible had they helped to get the pups nursing, rather than allowing the dam to hide from them (even if they had to hold her down and muzzle her for the pups to nurse) that things would have turned out different..."

that is certainly possible, what actually ocurred i was not there to see. my guess is that some intervention was attempted but just guessing. long story short the pups were put on surrogate mothers.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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So should horrible mothers be bred?
will you know they are horrible mothers BEFORE they are bred??? if so how? the comment about prior history in the line i guess could be a clue, but lines get scattered around the country and outcrossed i would think to get this info easily.

the mother herself was born so i guess her mother and mothers mother....obviously reared at least one pup each without being too absurd??
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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They are obviously backyard breeders and inexperienced ones at that. Selzer has more experience whelping than half the people I know....don't come on here for advice/questions than put down the person with the most experience and correct answer!

i am sure Selzer is big enough to speak for her/himself.

what you think is "obvious" or "correct" means little to me.

as far as you telling me what i can and can't do means even less.

have a nice day and a happy new year.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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will you know they are horrible mothers BEFORE they are bred??? if so how? the comment about prior history in the line i guess could be a clue, but lines get scattered around the country and outcrossed i would think to get this info easily.

the mother herself was born so i guess her mother and mothers mother....obviously reared at least one pup each without being too absurd??
Well I thought it was rather obvious that nobody would know they are bad mothers before being bred so I didn't feel the need to explain myself in detail, but if that's what you need so be it. Let me rephrase myself so everybody can understand.

REPHRASED: After learning the dam is a horrible mother to it's 1st litter, should she continue to be bred?

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Old 01-03-2013, 11:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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gotcha, sorry about my interpretation of yr question.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
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REPHRASED: After learning the dam is a horrible mother to it's 1st litter, should she continue to be bred?


LOL


Ok so in my personal (uneducated about dogs in this manor) opinion I would breed the dog one more time. I would make sure I did the right thing and watched the bitch like a hawk but I would do it one more time as long as shes a REALLY good dog in every other aspect.
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