test litters??

[x11]

an interesting concept, i tracked a dog to a good reputable breeder imo and asked why no papers or info on the dog available. it was a "test" litter. the breeder tests a potential female on her first litter to see what/how she produces and sells them under a different name with no papers at a low price but only sells to people that he can get feedback from. not sure how this sits ethically but he actually doesn't lie about anything.

same breeder effects a father duaghter mating some rare occasions just to "test" his lines for i am guessing recessive genes?

not mentioning names but he does back all his dogs and has great success but is this ethical??

[UnlimitedGSD]

to test what exactly??

Every litter is a test litter (unless you repeat a breeding) - doesn't make any sense IMO

Father / Daughter inbreeding - PASS

[x11]

good point.

the father daughter test mating i think is valid on a clinical level yeah? ethical???



btw not ever my problem as i am not a breeder. just thought it was a brutal but possibly valid means of checking yr lines...or not.

[shepherdmom]

Not a breeder but I am horrified. I think it is wrong on so many levels.

[x11]

true but keep in mind human ethics is not dog ethics, wild dogs will breed with about any receptive female including progeny yeah?

so can we keep this objective and not moral per se.

[UnlimitedGSD]

I breed by SV standards. 2-3 is the closest they allow. I find that there are two types of breeders that will breed closer than that - those that don't know anything, and those that think they know everything ;-)

[x11]

if the breeder "knew" what was going to happen it would not be a test.he does have good success with hips/elbows and anything else measurable.

i figured it would be hard keeping the moral aspects out of this, oh well.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by UnlimitedGSD

I breed by SV standards. 2-3 is the closest they allow. I find that there are two types of breeders that will breed closer than that - those that don't know anything, and those that think they know everything ;-)

Koerbelbach kennel has done it but most people don't even realize that there was incest and ironically it is a popular pedigree combination and you can find it in quite a few pedigrees.

However, test litters are nothing new to me. If it's happening, you won't hear about it because it'll happen behind closed doors.

[x11]

hence why these dogs i am referring to are sold not under the breeders kennel name and with no papers and at low prices to "feedback" homes.

some people have landed themselves some good dogs this way i can say.

[Lucy Dog]

Originally Posted by UnlimitedGSD

I breed by SV standards. 2-3 is the closest they allow. I find that there are two types of breeders that will breed closer than that - those that don't know anything, and those that think they know everything ;-)

Exactly the type of breeders that I thought of when I read the first post of the thread. Experimental inbreeding for specific traits. Breeding for extremes.

The part about not putting the kennel name on the litter is the part that I'd find to be not so ethical. A breeder should stand behind and be responsible for every single litter they produce - good or bad. The whole anonymous by experiment isn't so ethical when it comes to bringing living creatures into this world.

Originally Posted by x11

some people have landed themselves some good dogs this way i can say.

There's probably been a whole lot of disasters too.