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Old 12-28-2012, 10:04 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Wait, a sibling or father-daughter breeding in DOGS is *illegal* in Germany? As in, punishable by law? You go to jail or pay a fine if you are caught doing these breedings?
No, they are illegal by club rules and your club may punish you with a hefty fine, get barred from breeding, or even kicked out of the club. All depends on the club by laws. The club can hold court and punish you with disciplinary actions, either fine you, bar you from breeding or kick you out.

Let's say you are breeding Bouviers and have an accidental litter, the punishment for that would be a barring from breeding, for one year for both the dogs.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:16 PM   #82 (permalink)
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what people are talking about with "incest" in America is that you will go to prison. It is a crime. Breeding related dogs in America isn't legally incest.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:17 PM   #83 (permalink)
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what people are talking about with "incest" in America is that you will go to prison. It is a crime. Breeding related dogs in America isn't legally incest.
You will get punished under the law for vaginal inzest in Germany (human), it is illegal. However, under Club Laws, inzest with animals is illegal as well.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:53 PM   #84 (permalink)
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You will get punished under the law for vaginal inzest in Germany (human), it is illegal. However, under Club Laws, inzest with animals is illegal as well.
I think your understanding of the word illegal is a bit off. Illegal is not permitted under law. Not permitted under club rules won't land you in jail. There are consequences but they the charge against you isn't criminal in nature, which is what incest would be in humans.

My understanding is that the rules in Germany are there to heavily dissuade breeders from doing close line breedings, hence the repercussions. But if they did it, they won't be going to jail.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:39 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Most SAR owners I know raise and bond with their dog... When a dog retires, they remains with the family until he/she passes. I know some police departments don't work this way, and I think it is wrong.
I don't mean after retiring, I mean buying green dogs from 8 months to 2 years old, that is pretty standard. My team just received 6 young dogs to start training and maybe even I end up start the training of one... just to surrender him again for his definitive handler... Horrible!

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Exactly! And more research is done every year.
Two examples: research of genetic markers for HD, research of genetic markers for impulsive aggression.. But research needs money, and money only comes if laboratories think there will be a market for their future discoveries.
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:22 AM   #86 (permalink)
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I don't mean after retiring, I mean buying green dogs from 8 months to 2 years old, that is pretty standard. My team just received 6 young dogs to start training and maybe even I end up start the training of one... just to surrender him again for his definitive handler... Horrible!



Exactly! And more research is done every year.
Two examples: research of genetic markers for HD, research of genetic markers for impulsive aggression.. But research needs money, and money only comes if laboratories think there will be a market for their future discoveries.
There just isn't the market for genetic research like this in dogs as there is for humans. It's too easy to put down an aggressive dog than to treat it/research it/prevent it.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:23 AM   #87 (permalink)
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ENOUGH arguing over the meaning of incest or inzest. We get the point and people know what it is.

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Old 12-29-2012, 11:06 AM   #88 (permalink)
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What really would be the point anyway, breeding a father/daughter Mother/son? You'd need to wait at least 3 yrs for certain lines to mature and health issues would be the only reason...because a dog with solid temperament/working ability is a given or there would be no reason otherwise to even think about it. Health would be the only reason...and then such close inbreeding would show it unnaturally regardless.
Not that I condone it....but it is usually to set type. The same thing applies to *any* litter (waiting several years for maturity or for a full assessment of health). I honestly think it's more popular with show breeders. I don't mean GSDs but other breeds where winning CH and GRCH are top honors, not working achievements or titles. They can use close linebreeding to set type in their successful lines.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:25 AM   #89 (permalink)
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I don't mean after retiring, I mean buying green dogs from 8 months to 2 years old, that is pretty standard. My team just received 6 young dogs to start training and maybe even I end up start the training of one... just to surrender him again for his definitive handler... Horrible!
.
The team I worked with didn't do this. They raised them from puppies. I know every group is different and that assistance dogs need to go through training before they can go to their homes but to just sell a dog because it doesn't have the genetics you are looking for that seems cold to me. Almost like the way we once treated slaves.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:41 AM   #90 (permalink)
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just sell a dog because it doesn't have the genetics you are looking for that seems cold to me.
Happens all the time. I love my dogs, but I also get them for very specific things. If they cannot perform in those areas, I find them homes where they will be loved and enjoyed for simple pets.

I have a dog here now that may not work out for what I bought him for. I don't have the room to keep every dog that doesn't work out.
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