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post #71 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 08:14 PM
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I think what Lauri means is that the word "incest" already has a very negative stigma attached, because the very definition of the word makes it amoral and criminal. When it comes to dogs, a father-daughter breeding is not "incest", it's a father-daughter breeding.

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post #72 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
I think what Lauri means is that the word "incest" already has a very negative stigma attached, because the very definition of the word makes it amoral and criminal. When it comes to dogs, a father-daughter breeding is not "incest", it's a father-daughter breeding.
Well, I guess, different countries, different definition. Where I'm from, it's called Inzest.
Doesn't matter if there is a stigma, inzest, is inzest, no matter how much you are trying to excuse it with "father-daughter" breeding, it's still inzest.
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post #73 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 08:19 PM
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While I don't think these breedings are bad per se, they had a moment and a reason to be... it is also true that today, with genetic markers these practices are not as needed today. We, dog buyers, are the ones that need to push for those markers to be commercially available.
Like using a service such as this?
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post #74 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 08:22 PM
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PS:

Under VDH rules Inzest (Father-Daughter, Mother-Son, full siblings) is illegal. Since the SV is a member of the VDH, it is illegal within the SV as well. If you have half-siblings, you need prior permission and turn in an appeal to do the breeding. We just call it what it is.

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§ 4 Zuchtmaßnahmen

3.Paarungen von Verwandten 1. Grades – Inzest (Eltern x Kinder/Vollgeschwister untereinander)
sind verboten. Halbgeschwisterverpaarungen bedürfen der Ausnahmegenehmigung des
Rassehunde-Zuchtvereins.
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post #75 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 08:29 PM
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I'm talking more about the tone earlier in this thread than how it is defined in other countries. Here it means something different and is punishable by law.

Also there's a difference in what is illegal (as in you will be punished) and what is not registerable. There are rules about what you can register with the AKC (albeit not as strict) but breeding dogs outside those rules is not illegal. The cops won't come and confiscate your dogs and serve you a warrant for, say, breeding a dog that is younger or older than the AKC allows. You won't get arrested for doing a father-daughter breeding because it's not incest.

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post #76 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 09:31 PM
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Actually it does relate to dogs. At least in Germany, with most dog associations and clubs, Incest is illegal and you can only do the breeding if you have a really good reason and turned in an appeal to do it and yes, it is called "Inzest" which is not to be confused with "Inzucht".
The ENGLISH word 'incest' refers to people - not animals.

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post #77 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 09:36 PM
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Incest ist a crime in Germany as well and punishable by law. It's also illegal with most the clubs like the VDH and you might even get punished as well.

Since the SV was brought up as well, with the SV and in Germany it is Incest and illegal.
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post #78 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 09:40 PM
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The ENGLISH word 'incest' refers to people - not animals.

Well, the word Inzest in Germany DOES refer to people and animals even for plants and the translation for it is Incest.

I'm sorry but that's how it is where I'm from and I will call it for what it is. Father and Daughter breeding IS inzest.

If you breed under SV rules, Inzest is out of question, period!
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post #79 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 09:41 PM
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Wait, a sibling or father-daughter breeding in DOGS is *illegal* in Germany? As in, punishable by law? You go to jail or pay a fine if you are caught doing these breedings?
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post #80 of 121 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 09:43 PM
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What really would be the point anyway, breeding a father/daughter Mother/son? You'd need to wait at least 3 yrs for certain lines to mature and health issues would be the only reason...because a dog with solid temperament/working ability is a given or there would be no reason otherwise to even think about it. Health would be the only reason...and then such close inbreeding would show it unnaturally regardless.

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