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Old 11-29-2012, 10:39 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks Lee..always good info!
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:14 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Cliff, Lee and Lies - great posts.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:37 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Cliff and Lies, excellent posts. Lee, excellent point.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfstraum View Post

One thing that does bother me is the conception that a "V" is necessary....in Showlines this is true - if a dog goes SG, no one will want to use him...two of the very best showline males I know of were SG in conformaton - but they had work ethic....they were bypassed even by their own breeders as not being sufficient for breeding...

In working lines, there is NOTHING WRONG with a SG or even some G ratings in conformation....the conformation rating is one man's opinion, and depending on where/who awards this, it is next to meaningless as a abritrator of the dog's breeding value....
This is one of those "variables" I was talking about--I didn't want to get too deep into the differences between show and working bloodlines in my first post, because it was late and I was tired, but I totally agree with Wolfstraum. So much depends on the bloodline, and the goals of the breeder. That SG showline male that the show breeders turn their nose up at, may be the best working showline dog you've ever seen, and therefore could be of great value. And many great working line dogs go SG or G, and it doesn't necessarily mean they are better or worse than a V-rated dog--it all depends on what you need for your breeding program. You have to look at the whole dog, as well as what is behind him.

That said, if you have an SG showline dog who can only acheive a SchH2 by a whisker, he probably won't be sought after by reputable breeders--but it doesn't reduce his INTRINSIC value as the best dog you ever had.

For that matter, titles aren't the be-all and end-all of everything--some of the best dogs are "untitled" dogs working in law enforcement, SAR, service, etc. The key is that the dog is tested and well understood.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Specifically, if I were to buy a male puppy from a responsible breeder with good lineage and get him titled through Sch1 or 2 (or go all the way 3),
By the time you title a dog to a SchH3, even a 1, after all the work, the years of training, the investigation to look for that breeder of great bloodlines, the people you train with, the club, the seminars, the trials... then you don't need to ask how a dog is used a stud, you will already know.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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By the time you title a dog to a SchH3, even a 1, after all the work, the years of training, the investigation to look for that breeder of great bloodlines, the people you train with, the club, the seminars, the trials... then you don't need to ask how a dog is used a stud, you will already know.
Aww...thanks so much for your insight and sharing your knowledge with a novice who's curious. You must be a real peach in person


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Old 11-29-2012, 03:46 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Aww...thanks so much for your insight and sharing your knowledge with a novice who's curious. You must be a real peach in person
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but what Catu says is correct. By the time you've proven your dog breedworthy, you will have learned much of what you need to know.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:42 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Exactly, I don't mean to be snotty at all, but to show how in breeding the important part is not the goal (having a dog with great genetics and training to breed) but the journey (acquiring the knowledge to tell what is good genetics and training).

In some way it answers your question, people who have such studs dogs (provided they didn't only bought something in Europe) then their word and work will have some weight to both scenarios you provide. The most common is that the dam's owner chooses the dog as a stud, but I've seen too someone suggesting a male for a given female. Though at the end, is the female's owner the one who has the last word.
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