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Old 12-14-2012, 03:21 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I have still never seen any corellation between commercial pups and hobby pups having an advantage in being good house dogs. Without a doubt genetics is the most important element. But I import a lot of puppies, that usually come from outdoor setups in Europe....and truthfully they are usually housebroken in 2to3days....2 of the last three pups were housebroken without one accident in the house, and within a week know the area that I want them to eliminate outside. No car accidents or crate accidents....I attribute a lot to genetics but a young puppy with good genetics should easily adjust to new environment as Lisa said....but hey others may experience other results.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:08 PM   #22 (permalink)
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So you are a "nature" over "nurture" person, I get it. I think both have important influences on a young puppy.

So if you took a puppy from 2 stable dogs and raised it in near isolation with no exposure to anyone other than you and no exposure to any environment outside of the one that they are raised in that puppy would still be perfectly fine and normal when brought into a family home and would show no ill effects from being raised in that way?

I'll have to see if any studies have been done to prove or disprove that.

I think socialization is key to puppy development and without it a puppy would not be at their fullest potential even with good genetics. But that's solely my opinion.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I think genetics trump socializing.
I've seen dogs that are kennel raised through the 'imprinting' period(one was over a yr old and lived in a kennel her whole puppyhood) and are extremely social, not reactive to others...nor are they fearful or timid. Though they may have a of bit barrier aggressive behavior due to the kenneling. Both male and female.
That said, unless the lines were something I really wanted, I'd rather go with a small hobby breeder who raises pups in the home environment, not a commercial kennel with paid staff.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm not a nothing over nothing, because the pups I get still live in the real world and are exposed to life, so they are exposed to nurture that is not necessarily from a home and still do well. I just have gotten a lot of pups that came from outdoor kennels and they havent had a problem with acclimating to a house. Hundreds of dogs from Jinopo, Eurosport, Kreative Kennels, Triple Crown, and many many other commercial kennels live in house all throughout the country and world with no abnormal adjustment. I dont know that this makes me anything but aware that a good dog/pup will adjust to their environment easily if things are normal.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:35 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I haven't had the same experience so I draw my conclusions from what I have personally been around and seen with my own eyes.

If socialization really meant nothing, then why bother with it at all. I would like to have the best of both - good genes and a well socialized puppy, for me the best place to get that is a hobby breeder who is involved in their dogs and raises litters in their home. But to each their own.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:17 AM   #26 (permalink)
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WHO said anything about no socialization???? You don't know if commercial kennels socialize their puppies, for you to jump to that conclusion, because you equate commercial kennels with a lack of socialization doesn't make it so...sorry. The fact remains that all those kennels I mentioned and others have plenty of their pups living in homes. We are all entitled to our opinions, we are all entitled to our preferences, we are NOT entitled to our facts. I have no problem with your personal preference that you prefer a hobby breeder.....I just don't think it is fair to project (to newbies) that they can't get just a good puppy from a commercial operation when thousands of people have and still do.

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Old 12-15-2012, 08:50 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I just hope that as the OP understands, since she has interest in becoming a breeder, that the kennel set-up is not what makes a good breeder, nor the size of the operation, but the understanding of the dogs, pedigrees, and how to determine which dogs are breedworthy - and that comes from a life-time of involvement with training dogs in all venues, performance and work.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:09 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffson1 View Post
WHO said anything about no socialization???? You don't know if commercial kennels socialize their puppies, for you to jump to that conclusion, because you equate commercial kennels with a lack of socialization doesn't make it so...sorry. The fact remains that all those kennels I mentioned and others have plenty of their pups living in homes. We are all entitled to our opinions, we are all entitled to our preferences, we are NOT entitled to our facts. I have no problem with your personal preference that you prefer a hobby breeder.....I just don't think it is fair to project (to newbies) that they can't get just a good puppy from a commercial operation when thousands of people have and still do.
That was in response to posts that genetics was everything, that it doesn't matter if the puppy was socialized or not as long as the genetics behind it were good. I think you can take a puppy with good genetics and completely mess it up by not socializing it. Yes you may be able to make up for that later on if the genetics are good. There are commercial breeders who socialize and there are ones who don't. I was pointing out that socialization is critical whether the puppy is from a commercial kennel or a hobby breeder regardless of the genetics.

Why don't more breeders put an emphasis on socializing and exposure to new people and things before the puppy goes home?

I'm sure a good puppy can be obtained from a commercial breeder - the respected ones employ people to handle their puppies and work with them so they receive a ton of hands on care and socialization. The ones who don't do that, well despite good genetics those puppies are at a disadvantage when going to new homes because they haven't been around anything.

I never said you can't get a good puppy that way, it just depends on whether the breeder did socializing or not. Hobby breeders are just as guilty of not doing it as commercial breeders. To the OP whatever breeding setup you prefer, make sure that socializing puppies is made a priority.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:01 AM   #29 (permalink)
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OP, setting aside the debating going on here - you said you are interested in a commercial breeding facility set up and seeing photos of one.

Here is one with lots of pics and info pertaining to the kennel facilities. Leerburg | A Tour of the Leerburg Kennel Facility
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
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True Haus has a great facility, IMO. They have an indoor-outdoor kennel setup. There are large chainlink runs attached to a kennel building, so that part of the kennel enclosure is indoors. Inside the kennel building there is a grooming tub, tack room, and air conditioning in the summer (it's hot here but winters are mild). Just outside the building there is a grooming table and a powerful force dryer (the kind I would kill to have). The entire property is fenced so that the dogs can get out and exercise, and they have a big training field with all the equipment. They do rotate dogs in and out of the house, so they get household time as well. I am not sure how many dogs they have at the moment, but it's too many to keep them all in the house at once.

Personally, if I were a breeder I would want to keep it small so that my dogs could ALL be housedogs, but that's just not possible for a lot of folks.
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