Ownership demands affecting the breed?

[cliffson1]

Increasingly more and more you see instances of people who have acquired this breed and don't have a clue about the breed or the history of the breed. They lack basic skills and common sense to raise any dog much less a dog that has bred bred to work and do guard work. They lack the living conditions or the time and effort to properly allow the dog to develop. They want the dog to be something inconsistent with its past.
Is this affecting what the breed is today and what the breed has become???? And should breeders first obligation be to try to produce dogs that will meet these people desires???
Or should the breed be changed in standard and expectation to accomodate this influx.

[marshies]

I am one of these people. Daily I hope amaretto turns into this mellow gentle dog, which she just wasn't bred to be. Honestly, a better decision would've been to pick an easier breed. But I do feel that there are at least two types of ignorant owners, ones who remain in the dark and ones who improve their ownership skills so that they become compatible with the breed.

So no, I don't think Breeders should cater to the likes of me. I couldve chosen another breed or I can improve my skills. If I refused t do either I'm not an example of a good dog owner that breeders would want to send dogs to either way.

Besides, there ARE people who want gsds for all of their traits. Why put those at an disadvantage.

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

Just some numbers on the popularity of the German Shepherd, according to AKC only (not counting the junk registries and the dogs not registered):

AKC Dog Registration Statistics
Goes back to 2000

In 1925, the German Shepherd Dog displaced the Boston Terrier, seizing the number one spot

Shortly after Rin Tin Tin was featured in the Warner Brothers film Man From ****’s River (1922), the German Shepherd Dog was number one from 1925-1928
(both from AKC)


Popularity

"When the UK Kennel Club first accepted registrations for the breed in 1919, fifty-four dogs were registered, and by 1926 this number had grown to over 8,000.[5] The breed first gained international recognition at the decline of World War I after returning soldiers spoke highly of the breed, and animal actors Rin Tin Tin and Strongheart popularised the breed further.[10] The first German Shepherd Dog registered in the United States was Queen of Switzerland; however, her offspring suffered from defects as the result of poor breeding, which caused the breed to suffer a decline in popularity during the late 1920s.[10]


Popularity increased again after the German Shepherd Sieger Pfeffer von Bern became the 1937 and 1938 Grand Victor in American Kennel club dog shows, only to suffer another decline at the conclusion of World War II, due to anti-German sentiment of the time.[10] As time progressed, their popularity increased gradually until 1993, when they became the third most popular breed in the United States. As of 2009, the breed was the second most popular in the US.[10][11] Additionally, the breed is typically among the most popular in other registries.[10] "
German Shepherd Dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[BR870]

Of course thats what is happening. I know this is a rhetorical question meant to spark debate, but still...

Unfortunately this is what has happened to all the popular breeds. The couch potato labrador found in most American homes is a far cry these days from its field working cousins. Mellowed and blunted, they've turned into pillows and furniture that need to be fed. Its the dumbing down of America, and its happening in alot more than dogs.

Another aspect is the litigious nature of society. Stupidity is rewarded. At one time, if a person stuck their hand through a fence into the yard of a barking dog and got bit, well everyone would blame the person for being foolish and ask them what they expected to happen. Now we reward their stupidity and allow it to flourish...

[mysweetkaos]

Originally Posted by marshies

I am one of these people. Daily I hope amaretto turns into this mellow gentle dog, which she just wasn't bred to be. Honestly, a better decision would've been to pick an easier breed. But I do feel that there are at least two types of ignorant owners, ones who remain in the dark and ones who improve their ownership skills so that they become compatible with the breed.

So no, I don't think Breeders should cater to the likes of me. I couldve chosen another breed or I can improve my skills. If I refused t do either I'm not an example of a good dog owner that breeders would want to send dogs to either way.

Besides, there ARE people who want gsds for all of their traits. Why put those at an disadvantage.

With time and training Amaretto will be a mellow gentle dog.....with proper leadership, training and LOTS of exercise and mentally stimulating activity. Kaos has never been a laid back guy who would welcome anyone into his personal space or home without at least a thorough inspection....but he is the most mellow and gentle creature I could hope for in having him with my kids for what is coming up on 10 years.
I like that he is the sweetest thing I've ever known.....but is constantly "watching" to make sure everything is "safe" for his family. I think you are proving yourself to be a fantastic owner...you did so much research and prep before bringing your puppy home and you continue to try to learn as much as you can to be the owner she needs you to be. Unfortunately though in my opinion you are in the minority.

As to the OP...I think "good" breeders should continue doing what they do, breeding the best they can to have all of those traits that make them special there. The loyalty, solidness of nerves, courage, etc. I think those breeders should continue in that endeavor as well as continue to thoroughly screen and educate people they choose to sell their puppies too. I don't think we will ever see an end to BYB's of unstable dogs or an end to people who want a GSD for the wrong reasons without a clue or care to what these dogs are, should be and need.

I for one look forward to the day we can start researching breeders for the next "best" dog we've ever had and I commend breeders who continue to strive for that as well.

[Jax08]

I think I'd like to address specific things in this.

Originally Posted by cliffson1

Increasingly more and more you see instances of people who have acquired this breed and don't have a clue about the breed or the history of the breed.

Is knowing the breed's history a requirement to dog ownership? I know the basics on the history of the German Shepherd and had NO idea when I adopted Jax. So, given the basis of the WHOLE post....

Yes...Buyer demands are affecting the breed with breeders who don't care about the history and what a German Shepherd should be. However, along with buyer demands, the judges and breeders are also responsible. When breeders breed to win, I think that changes the breed just as much as buyer demands.

Originally Posted by cliffson1

They lack basic skills and common sense to raise any dog much less a dog that has bred bred to work and do guard work. They lack the living conditions or the time and effort to properly allow the dog to develop. They want the dog to be something inconsistent with its past.

Could you please expand on this? Living conditions? Are there living conditions specific to any breed? People live in apartments and can still allow the dog to properly develop.

Now...common sense and basic skills...that's lacking in all parts of our society and the more technologically driven our society becomes, the worse it gets.

But inconsistent with its past....along with being working dogs, aren't German Shepherds also supposed to be able to adapt to all conditions? If the dog is a service dog, is that still considered a working dog? Under conditions that are not rigorous living conditions such as a police dog or a herding dog?

Originally Posted by cliffson1

And should breeders first obligation be to try to produce dogs that will meet these people desires???
Or should the breed be changed in standard and expectation to accomodate this influx.

NO! No, Breeders should NOT produce dogs to meet a person's desires. NO! The standard should not be changed to meet expectations.

That is how many breeds have been ruined. The Cocker Spaniel was ruined when a queen favored them and they became popular. Now, you have beautiful dogs that are known for biting because they bred the temperament out. How about the Collie? I love Collie's. They were always my choice before I had a GSD. But how many of them can actually work anymore?

[LaRen616]

Originally Posted by Jax08

That is how many breeds have been ruined. The Cocker Spaniel was ruined when a queen favored them and they became popular. Now, you have beautiful dogs that are known for biting because they bred the temperament out. How about the Collie? I love Collie's. They were always my choice before I had a GSD. But how many of them can actually work anymore?

Popularity is definitely ruining breeds.

There are tons of coach potato, mean, unhealthy, nervy GSDs out there.

The Dalmatian was ruined when 101 Dalmatians came out, everyone wanted one, bybs sprouted up everywhere trying to make a quick buck. I want a Dalmatian and everytime I tell someone that I always get the same responses "they are very mean dogs", "they are very unhealthy" and "I have been bitten by one before."

It's sad that so many breeds are ruined because of popularity.

[Emoore]

Originally Posted by Jax08

Is knowing the breed's history a requirement to dog ownership? I know the basics on the history of the German Shepherd and had NO idea when I adopted Jax. So, given the basis of the WHOLE post....

I don't think they need to know about Captain Max and the Swabians (which would be a great name for a band by the way), but they DO need to understand that it's a working breed, a herding breed, a guarding breed. They need to understand that desire to work and the spark of aggression that exists in a good GSD that isn't there in a lot of other breeds.

Originally Posted by Jax08

Yes...Buyer demands are affecting the breed with breeders who don't care about the history and what a German Shepherd should be. However, along with buyer demands, the judges and breeders are also responsible. When breeders breed to win, I think that changes the breed just as much as buyer demands.

I think from a numbers standpoint, uneducated pet buyers are affecting the breed a lot more than conformation judges.

Originally Posted by Jax08

Could you please expand on this? Living conditions? Are there living conditions specific to any breed? People live in apartments and can still allow the dog to properly develop.

I can't speak for Cliff, but to me the living conditions have nothing to do with whether the family lives in an apartment, shack, or mansion, and everything to do with whether of not that person is willing to take the dog on as kind of a hobby. If you're not willing to spend a fair bit of your free time on your dog, you probably shouldn't get a German Shepherd puppy.

I don't think that breeders should change the breed to suit the desires of the average pet buyer. I think what we are going to see, however, is a huge dichotomy even bigger than the one between work and show: the divide between the "pet" GSD and. . . what? The "real" GSD? The "old fashioned" GSD? Oh wait that one's already taken. We need to think of a name, because it's happening.

[cliffson1]

I don't think I mentioned anything about requirements for ownership, I do think I see people who are acquiring GS that don't have a clue that the breed was created for certain things, thus some traits are strong in the breed, and these traits are often the exact opposite of what they want or are prepared to deal with.
Don't think I said that living conditions are specific to any breed much less a GS, but many people acquiring a GS do not have the right environment, in conjunction with their ownership skills to allow a GS to exist in the environment without problems.
The German Shepherd is a very adaptible dog to almost any situation with PROPER training or instruction. But a well bred GS comes with certain foundation traits, require common sense, training, and understanding of the breed for you to get the good results.

[cliffson1]

@ Marshies....I have big time respect for your post. When people can see inward as well as outward I think society benefits as a whole.