The current state of the GSD

[BR870]

Originally Posted by Freestep

What makes you think this? Just because a dog uses a "soft mouth" on birds doesn't mean he can't bite dang hard when he wants to.

For sure... I've said it here before, but the meanest nastiest most dangerous dog I've ever known was a yellow lab. He lived next door to where my wife (GF at the time) lived with her mother. He was a monster and would bite without provocation. He had that true deep threatening bark and growl. There was no play, no uncertainty... That growl meant I would come get you if I could.

He bit atleast 2 people that I know of, but they never reported it...

[Vicky]

Ok, there are always exceptions to the rule but as a whole Labradors are not generally protective or aloof. Can we agree on that?

As far as the soft mouth, it depends on the dog I'm sure. Everyone will attempt and prove me wrong and that's absolutely fine. I just thinks it goes against what the breed was bred for. I would see it as very confusing for a dog to be asked to carry things softly and with care and then take a full, hard bite in a different circumstance. Too much room for error unless it is a very, very experienced trainer. But who would really want to?

I also agree with never achieving the old standard because the dogs aren't used for their original purpose anymore. Unfortunately, as much as I hate to admit it, I already know that we're never going to see what these dogs used to be. There is always going to be the different types and that's the truth for all breeds. It's just fun and a learning experience to hear everyone's side of the story and see what people think about it. Does anyone have any insight as to what the future will hold? A further split? Perhaps some sort of improvement for both/all types? Acceptance of the split instead of attempting to push all the types back into one?

[JakodaCD OA]

I respectively disagree that gsd's aren't used for their original purpose anymore. Many many working dogs out there.

And call me naive, but I still believe there are many many good breeders out there producing dogs that CAN do it all if they choose, the thing is, most people don't "want" to do it all, they pick a specific thing they are interested in or the dog is good at and go with that.

I don't see the "split" ever correcting itself anytime to soon. BUT, while some may not agree, that split provides a wide variety of types , one that may be good for you but not for me.

[Nikitta]

I have to agree that in some cases this is true but there are good breeders who try to maintain the breed standard. My case in point is the breeder I recently got my puppy from. She works very hard to place them properly with the right people and she maintains the breed standard to the highest degree. In other words, she cares. There are probably this argument going on with every breed of dog.

[Vicky]

Jakoda, I agree as well. There ARE good breeders out there, it's just not everyone agrees on what the GSD should be.

Do you think the split is beneficial then? I'm not trying to trap you or anything, just curious. I can see the benefits to the breed being split, I just find it a disrespect I guess that the breed has been bred down so much. And that thinking applies to any breed as well, but as people already said, not everyone needs a dog to do what these dogs used to do. That's understandable. I think if that were the case, GSDs might only be in serious working venues and might never see a pet/companion home.

[Andaka]

I just find it a disrespect I guess that the breed has been bred down so much.

What do you consider being "bred down"? Guide Dogs are purpose bred -- bred for a particular job. There was a problem several years ago with blind people with dogs being mugged. Health issues in the GSD made guid dog schools move even more to the retriever breeds until the safety of their clients was in trouble. They see the GSD as a deterent to muggings, but they don't want a dog that would protedt their handlr from help if needed from medical or police. So they breed a less suspicious dog. A suspicious dog may have difficulty concentrating on the job at hand while in a crowd.Would you rather they not use German Shepherds?

[4TheDawgies]

Originally Posted by Vicky

Jakoda, I agree as well. There ARE good breeders out there, it's just not everyone agrees on what the GSD should be.

Do you think the split is beneficial then? I'm not trying to trap you or anything, just curious. I can see the benefits to the breed being split, I just find it a disrespect I guess that the breed has been bred down so much. And that thinking applies to any breed as well, but as people already said, not everyone needs a dog to do what these dogs used to do. That's understandable. I think if that were the case, GSDs might only be in serious working venues and might never see a pet/companion home.

I do not think the split is beneficial. All it does is cater temporarily to the selfish agendas of humans. However it does absolutely no favors to the breed. A dog bred for extreme over angulation cannot handle the type of work required for a utilitarian dog duties. Some of those dogs can't even make it over a jump.
then on the opposite end these working lines who cannot settle in a house. I've seen it myself, people readily admitting they have to keep the dog outside in a kennel because the dog drives them nuts.

What part of either of those is in anyway enjoyable to have let alone in any way utilitarian?!

[Jack's Dad]

I'm not sure what you are looking for here. I have a 5 yr. old working line GSD and a almost 15 week old working line puppy. The older one does agility and that's about it. We don't have very many venues of any kind near or I might do something else with him or his baby sister.
They are from different breeders but based on their pedigrees either should be able to do anything asked of them.
The 5 yr. old is not crazy drivey. He has the drives but he is perfectly happy as a family companion. Calm laid back and great nerve. His sister is too young to know what's up yet. She's not afraid of anything but she is at the terrorist stage wanting to chew on everything in sight. In other words a puppy.
Why would I not want these dogs just because they are not out in a field herding sheep or working for the PD.
Most dogs of all breeds are not doing what they were originally bred for.
Back to labs for a moment. I have known many and including myself who have owned Labs. I met one owner who actually hunted.
Where I live we are overloaded with Aussies and Border Collies. Most of them are used to hold down the tool boxes in the back of trucks.
I like GSD's and am happy with them. If they get to screwed up I'm going to get a Bassett Hound.

[Vicky]

Andaka, breeding down meaning breeding the dog for absolutely no purpose (in my opinion). For example, The extremely angulated show lines. They are shown in CONFORMATION for pete's sake. Proper conformation is supposed to make a dog agile, sound, and able to perform well. When all you do is breed for a ridiculous flying trot, that's wrong to me.

No I don't think it's wrong for them to use GSDs as guide dogs. Not even close. But it is an example of a different "type" in the breed right now. Thank you for providing information on the suspicion thing. I didn't know that.

[Germanshepherdlova]

Working line versus Show line versus pet. As long as there is a demand for each type-it will never end. I accept this, it saves me a great deal of stress to just embrace the differences. Things will never be what they used to be. I have never seen an ugly GSD from any line though-they are all still gorgeous.