How far back in pedigree for rating hips/elbows?

eiyse98ls1 · 10-12-2011, 06:41 PM

how far back does the rating of hips/elbows come into play with the pedigree. i ask because im trying to learn more about hips/elbows affect on the next generations.

thanks

**MaggieRoseLee** · 10-13-2011, 09:33 AM

I'm moving this to the breeder section.... hopefully more answers there.. (but I'm thinking the further back the better!)

Emoore · 10-13-2011, 10:02 AM

I wanna see hip scores all the way back to Horand. (Or all the way back to the invention of the x-ray, whichever comes first.) I'm exaggerating a little of course, but there's really no reason you shouldn't have hip scores for all of the dogs in a five- or six-generation pedigree.

BlackthornGSD · 10-13-2011, 03:09 PM

Hip x-raying began sometime in the 60s, I think. I don't know when it became a requirement for breeding in Germany (of course, it's still not required in many countries, including the US).

So, in pedigrees, you start seeing hip information beginning with dogs born in the 60s--so German dogs have been xrayed for generations. Elbow x-rays have become a requirement for breed surveys in the past few years, so you may see many fewer generations of elbow x-rays.

But, in general, I want to see every dog in 5 generations x-rayed for hips, and at the least, both parents for elbows.

**Chris Wild** · 10-13-2011, 03:25 PM

I would look as far a back as the information is available, which is typically going to be just a few generations, putting the most emphasis on the 5 generations behind the dog.

But far beyond looking at the ancestors of the individual dog, you have to look at their relatives and the trends within the immediate family as well. What the siblings, half siblings, other offspring, etc.. of an individual dog were like provides much more information about what genes that dog is holding than his own hip scores and thus is even more valuable.

eiyse98ls1 · 10-13-2011, 06:40 PM

thanks. i ask this because im looking at several dogs. within the 3-4 generations, they have hip ratings (a2)fast normal and even rating of noch zugelassen. grand parents are (a1) or (a2). so can this have an affect on future litters? what if the other dog has ratings of (a1) normal? does this balance out the hips? or is it a coin flip?

Emoore · 10-13-2011, 06:44 PM

All of the dogs in the last 3-4 generations have fast normal? Or just a few? How far back is the NZ?

Also, keep in mind there is a LOT more to health than hips. Try to find out if grandparents, great-grandparents are still living and if not, how old were they when they died and what did they die of? Research uncles/aunts and great-uncles/aunts.

eiyse98ls1 · 10-13-2011, 06:46 PM

blackthorngsd,

you replied on another thread i started about pedigree. this is why i started this thread. there are several dogs that im hips are a concern.

thanks

eiyse98ls1 · 10-13-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emoore

All of the dogs in the last 3-4 generations have fast normal? Or just a few? How far back is the NZ?

Also, keep in mind there is a LOT more to health than hips. Try to find out if grandparents, great-grandparents are still living and if not, how old were they when they died and what did they die of? Research uncles/aunts and great-uncles/aunts.

this is one of the dogs im inquiring about..

opinions on this dam.

BlackthornGSD · 10-13-2011, 07:50 PM

Go to Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SV) e.V.: Zuchtwert and look up the HDZW scores for the dogs you are concerned about and interested in. I did that before I replied to the other thread.

Here are some links about the HD ZW:

Breed value and the GSD - The SV Zuchtwert programme

HD Zuchtwert Breed Value Assessment Number -

10-12-2011, 06:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
eiyse98ls1 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 38	How far back in pedigree for rating hips/elbows? how far back does the rating of hips/elbows come into play with the pedigree. i ask because im trying to learn more about hips/elbows affect on the next generations. thanks Last edited by MaggieRoseLee; 10-13-2011 at 09:34 AM.

10-13-2011, 09:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
MaggieRoseLee The Agility Rocks! Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Bushkill, PA (The Poconos!) Posts: 22,205	I'm moving this to the breeder section.... hopefully more answers there.. (but I'm thinking the further back the better!) __________________ MACH2 Bretta Lee Wildhaus CGC TC TQX Glory B Wildhaus NA, NJ, NF + LOL (still) "*Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde*

10-13-2011, 10:02 AM	#3 (permalink)
Emoore Crowned Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North DFW, TX Posts: 9,214	I wanna see hip scores all the way back to Horand. (Or all the way back to the invention of the x-ray, whichever comes first.) I'm exaggerating a little of course, but there's really no reason you shouldn't have hip scores for all of the dogs in a five- or six-generation pedigree. __________________ Rocky vom Backyard- 10 years young Kopper vom Felssclucht Bach - 17 months At the Bridge: Cash van der Animal Shelter 2006-2010

10-13-2011, 03:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
BlackthornGSD Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Virginia Posts: 1,094	Hip x-raying began sometime in the 60s, I think. I don't know when it became a requirement for breeding in Germany (of course, it's still not required in many countries, including the US). So, in pedigrees, you start seeing hip information beginning with dogs born in the 60s--so German dogs have been xrayed for generations. Elbow x-rays have become a requirement for breed surveys in the past few years, so you may see many fewer generations of elbow x-rays. But, in general, I want to see every dog in 5 generations x-rayed for hips, and at the least, both parents for elbows. __________________ Christine Blackthorn Working German Shepherds

10-13-2011, 03:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
Chris Wild Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 12,604	I would look as far a back as the information is available, which is typically going to be just a few generations, putting the most emphasis on the 5 generations behind the dog. But far beyond looking at the ancestors of the individual dog, you have to look at their relatives and the trends within the immediate family as well. What the siblings, half siblings, other offspring, etc.. of an individual dog were like provides much more information about what genes that dog is holding than his own hip scores and thus is even more valuable. __________________ *Wildhaus Kennels* Kaiser ~ SchH3 CGC TDI (HOT) Raven ~ SchH3 AWD2 PD1 P1 PA T1 UCD URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Della ~ SchHA TR1 PD1 P1 PA T1 URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Wulf ~ SchH1 PD1 P1 T1 URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Heidi ~ BH CD UCD RN URO1 (B/HOT) Jazz ~ Superpup In Training

10-13-2011, 06:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
eiyse98ls1 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 38	thanks. i ask this because im looking at several dogs. within the 3-4 generations, they have hip ratings (a2)fast normal and even rating of noch zugelassen. grand parents are (a1) or (a2). so can this have an affect on future litters? what if the other dog has ratings of (a1) normal? does this balance out the hips? or is it a coin flip?

10-13-2011, 06:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
Emoore Crowned Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North DFW, TX Posts: 9,214	All of the dogs in the last 3-4 generations have fast normal? Or just a few? How far back is the NZ? Also, keep in mind there is a LOT more to health than hips. Try to find out if grandparents, great-grandparents are still living and if not, how old were they when they died and what did they die of? Research uncles/aunts and great-uncles/aunts. __________________ Rocky vom Backyard- 10 years young Kopper vom Felssclucht Bach - 17 months At the Bridge: Cash van der Animal Shelter 2006-2010

10-13-2011, 06:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
eiyse98ls1 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 38	blackthorngsd, you replied on another thread i started about pedigree. this is why i started this thread. there are several dogs that im hips are a concern. thanks

10-13-2011, 07:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
BlackthornGSD Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Virginia Posts: 1,094	Go to Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SV) e.V.: Zuchtwert and look up the HDZW scores for the dogs you are concerned about and interested in. I did that before I replied to the other thread. Here are some links about the HD ZW: Breed value and the GSD - The SV Zuchtwert programme HD Zuchtwert Breed Value Assessment Number - __________________ Christine Blackthorn Working German Shepherds

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