Any Obedience Victors at stud?

[ninemaplefarm]

Sorry..I posted in obedience first and realized I should have posted here but do not know how to remove other one.

Does anyone know of any recent Obedience Victors that have stud careers besides DeBruts the Shadow Knows? Either Canada or US?

I haven't had much luck and feel it is a shame as these dogs should be given more credit (along with agility and herding) in formulating a breeding program....

[Andaka]

Susan Sullivan in CT does a lot of herding with American Show Line dogs. She has had at least 3 Herding Champions.

There is a Dual champion (herding and conformation) in Mid-Missouri.

[Andaka]

Ashmead (Amy Vose) has had an OV in the last decade -- I haven't seen her in a while so I don't know what she might have now.

[Uniballer]

Is there any part of AKC obedience that is dominated by genetic imperatives (e.g. fighting the helper and grips in SchH) rather than the skill and persistence of the trainer? Obviously, you can't make a silk purse out of a pile of poop, but it isn't obvious to me what part of the dog's genotype AKC obedience exposes.

[DunRingill]

There is only max one obedience victor OR obedience victrix every year, and some have been spayed or neutered....so there probably aren't many being used in breeding programs. While OV is something I would love to accomplish some day, I don't think it's particularly meaningful when making breeding decisions.

[carmspack]

well actually I had an Obedience Grand Victrix - which I owned, trained and handled. Her score was 199.5 / 200 . She was Sentry Challenge, Benjamin Schultz , Dog World Award Canine Distinction, having earned each title in 3 consecutive trials - all scores over 195 -- her average was 197. She did schutzhund and tracking .
She produced other high in trialers - including daughters that also went Dog World Award .
She produced a dog that went High in Trial and Best in Show same day .
She produced "Ambergris" UD TDX SAR , herding dog on a farm , who in turn produced several SAR from ONE litter plus an rcmp male from the same -- and produced Ontarios first bomb dog who did all the prelim building searches on the Pope (John Paul) first north american tour , and same dog did security for the US President at Toronto based G - 8 Summit .

Her lines are flowing through my best working dogs -- the line that I have had for 35 years .

Her line flows through dogs like Winning Ways Chimo - through the maternal line with Lalique and Vesta ....

So how was it ?

It was the most anti climatic event ever .

We had no car . All trials I went to I would hitch a ride or go to on public transit, rent a car for the big ones.
I had a rascally baby that was a distraction , a husband who came with me because he drove and I did not -- used bike and TTC, and walked . So he was pacing around , another distraction.
The timing of the trial was lousy because my dog had a litter at home , still weaning , so that is a distraction to the dog.
Because she was in maternity leave , no training had been done bascially since the time she was bred - so make that about 4 months prior to the trial.

I went into the ring - cold turkey. She was absolutely amazing . Lightning fast . Precise , animated . A real starlet . The judge , Howard Ward was notorious for being demanding and quick in his rapid fire change of commands . I always chose the judges that meant something .

She lost her one half point because by the time we went in to perform her teats were starting to fill a bit , and remember she had been unworked. Going over the jump she gave a slight tick with her nail . (judge told me after).

You look around --- bah , not a person watching the results -- they were all at the conformation ring ----

I had my dog . I had met the challenge because when I took the pup I said I WILL make her a O GV . And I did.

The trophy is cob webby in a box -- along with other trophies and ribbons. The big rosette is tattered and dusty --

I went through for judging obedience -- did a lot of sanction matches, encouraged a lot of people , gave them hints -- some belong to a good tracking club now.

Obedience is not supported .

Now on the other side of the coin -- just because a dog has a G V does not mean that it is correct in temperament or trainable in other aspects.

and that is my story -

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

[ninemaplefarm]

Originally Posted by carmspack

well actually I had an Obedience Grand Victrix - which I owned, trained and handled. Her score was 199.5 / 200 . She was Sentry Challenge, Benjamin Schultz , Dog World Award Canine Distinction, having earned each title in 3 consecutive trials - all scores over 195 -- her average was 197. She did schutzhund and tracking .
She produced other high in trialers - including daughters that also went Dog World Award .
She produced a dog that went High in Trial and Best in Show same day .
She produced "Ambergris" UD TDX SAR , herding dog on a farm , who in turn produced several SAR from ONE litter plus an rcmp male from the same -- and produced Ontarios first bomb dog who did all the prelim building searches on the Pope (John Paul) first north american tour , and same dog did security for the US President at Toronto based G - 8 Summit .

Her lines are flowing through my best working dogs -- the line that I have had for 35 years .

Her line flows through dogs like Winning Ways Chimo - through the maternal line with Lalique and Vesta ....

So how was it ?

It was the most anti climatic event ever .

We had no car . All trials I went to I would hitch a ride or go to on public transit, rent a car for the big ones.
I had a rascally baby that was a distraction , a husband who came with me because he drove and I did not -- used bike and TTC, and walked . So he was pacing around , another distraction.
The timing of the trial was lousy because my dog had a litter at home , still weaning , so that is a distraction to the dog.
Because she was in maternity leave , no training had been done bascially since the time she was bred - so make that about 4 months prior to the trial.

I went into the ring - cold turkey. She was absolutely amazing . Lightning fast . Precise , animated . A real starlet . The judge , Howard Ward was notorious for being demanding and quick in his rapid fire change of commands . I always chose the judges that meant something .

She lost her one half point because by the time we went in to perform her teats were starting to fill a bit , and remember she had been unworked. Going over the jump she gave a slight tick with her nail . (judge told me after).

You look around --- bah , not a person watching the results -- they were all at the conformation ring ----

I had my dog . I had met the challenge because when I took the pup I said I WILL make her a O GV . And I did.

The trophy is cob webby in a box -- along with other trophies and ribbons. The big rosette is tattered and dusty --

I went through for judging obedience -- did a lot of sanction matches, encouraged a lot of people , gave them hints -- some belong to a good tracking club now.

Obedience is not supported .

Now on the other side of the coin -- just because a dog has a G V does not mean that it is correct in temperament or trainable in other aspects.

and that is my story -

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

Hey, I am still INCREDIBLY impressed!!!! That is SO Awesome!!! Congrats to you and your program even if you don't think it a big deal. It is!!!

[ninemaplefarm]

Originally Posted by Andaka

Ashmead (Amy Vose) has had an OV in the last decade -- I haven't seen her in a while so I don't know what she might have now.

Couldn't find a current website for her but thanks for mentioning it!

Also, yes...Susan is in my neck of the woods and I met her current herding dog- a Dallas bitch!! :-)

[cliffson1]

A Utility Dog title really impresses me....but it wouldn't be a basis for breeding no more than participation in the BSP. Definitely shows the dog has good aptitude for learning....but breeding has to be <imo< based on compatibility with the opposite mate. In this regard an OTC would not be a reason to breed to a dog.

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by cliffson1

A Utility Dog title really impresses me....but it wouldn't be a basis for breeding no more than participation in the BSP. Definitely shows the dog has good aptitude for learning....but breeding has to be <imo< based on compatibility with the opposite mate. In this regard an OTC would not be a reason to breed to a dog.

Very true!

An OTC or a CH or a ScH or any other title is not the only consideration for breeding - should be the entire dog and the genotype as well as the visible phenotype of each partner! Should be a consideration of the entire dog (physical and mental) and also how the male and female match up.