whelping question 58 days post conception

[selzer]

Ok, I have a girl that is really hard to read.

Two nights ago, I took her temperature and it was 100.8. The next morning 100.6. Last night 99.5, this morning 99.5. Today is 58 days after her first mating.

She is not nesting much, she ate her food, she is drinking water, I have not seen any contractions.

I guess she may still be coming down, the thermometer might be low, her overall temperature might run a little low.

How likely is it that she will have puppies today or tomorrow?

Isn't it better for the little buggers to incubate for 63 days? She is huge. Is it more likely for a large litter to come early? She has milk.

I am just very nervous.

[GSDBESTK9]

Gala will eat her whole meal and drink just before whelping. Our Evi and Tara will refuse it. So each female is different.

[Chris Wild]

Temp isn't down far enough yet for it to be likely that whelping will start within the next day or two. Once it gets down into the 98s, then it's time to start getting ready. I've had several bitches hang out in the 99s for a couple days before their temp finally took the plunge and pups started coming. So you've probably still got a couple days.

Whelping at 58 days is fine. No real reason for concern there. Also when counting days, to count correctly you count from ovulation (based on progesterone). Not mating. Often ovulation is a couple days before so if you're counting 58 days from mating it may be 60 or 61 from ovulation.

[selzer]

Originally Posted by Chris Wild

Temp isn't down far enough yet for it to be likely that whelping will start within the next day or two. Once it gets down into the 98s, then it's time to start getting ready. I've had several bitches hang out in the 99s for a couple days before their temp finally took the plunge and pups started coming. So you've probably still got a couple days.

Whelping at 58 days is fine. No real reason for concern there. Also when counting days, to count correctly you count from ovulation (based on progesterone). Not mating. Often ovulation is a couple days before so if you're counting 58 days from mating it may be 60 or 61 from ovulation.

Thank you all, I know that you have to count from ovulation, but the breeding was natural, and we did not do any progesterone testing, I mean, if their eyes would just turn yellow or something during ovulation, we could be more sure about this. This is not her first litter, but it is the first litter that I bred, so I have no way of gaging it that way either.

My concern is that I bred her three times, with 1 to 2 days in-between. If we whelp at day 58, then breeding 1 has incubated 58 days, but two is only 56 and three is down to 53 which is not so good.

Thanks in particular about the 98 degree mark. I have done this before, and check them twice a day. With my previous girls (all closely related) it went from 101.8 and steadily climbed down to just below 99, and normally they would whelp within 24 hours if it stayed in that range for 12 hours. (It is possible that the dip happened during that time and it was on its way back up.)

But I bought a new thermometer -- someone took my good expensive one with the digital read out and the cord from probe to hand held box out into the snow, dissected it and severed the cord. She will remain nameless. This one is a cheap little digital one that beeps when it is steady. Quick, easy to clean. But not sure how accurate. I thought I was starting early enough to get a good baseline.

I am not so concerned now, I think this is the hardest part.

Thanks again.

[wyominggrandma]

My bitches would drop as low as 97, then go back up.
Sounds like it could be anyday. Have a safe healthy whelping.

[Andaka]

Kahla would eat food between whelping puppies. She never missed a meal!!!

[dawnandjr]

My bitch had me guessing alot. She was 100 and under for her first litter when I started taking her temp. That was a week out from her due date. Then she was down in the 98's for a few days, thought that was low the first time it happened. Nope, up and down for a couple days between 98 and 99. Then her temp took a nose dive into the 97's but that was over a 12 hr period, so I had a low reading and then an even lower reading, then back up again. She had pups in those 24 hrs of the drop.

Oh, and just to add that I bought one of those digital ones from the drug store and it read the temp fine.

[WVGSD]

I came home last August to find that my bitch had whelped four puppies (her first litter) while I was at work!!! Her temp was in the 99 degree range, but she was eating, playing, not nesting, not restless and only on day 58 from the first of five natural breedings (consecutive days). She went on to whelp nine total puppies and all did well. I had planned/scheduled her whelping for the weekend and took the next week off from work, but she beat me to it and had the litter on a Wednesday.

[paulag1955]

Excuse me for butting in, but what's the physiological reason for the temperature drop?

[BlackthornGSD]

Originally Posted by paulag1955

Excuse me for butting in, but what's the physiological reason for the temperature drop?

Hormone change. Normal progesterone levels for a female not in heat nor pregnant is somewhere under 1. During estrus, it starts to rise, around 5, the signal to ovulate goes out. During pregnancy, progesterone levels are around 40-60. When progesterone drops below 40, iirc, the bitch will go into labor (or miscarry if it's too early). (These are the levels I've read--but they are somewhat lab dependent, so use them more as an index than as the actual numbers you'd be judging by.)

I agree with what others have said, too--if you're going by temperature drop, it needs to drop below 99 to be of relevance. It will hover below 100 for a few days before labor starts. And it may drop below 99 when labor starts then rise again--so you can miss that drop pretty easily.

As far as age of the litter, by my understanding, all eggs attach to the uterine wall at the same time, so whether an egg is fertilized on the first mating or the last mating all growth begins at the same time and all fetuses are the same age.

So, if the pups are born 55 days from the last mating, that just means that that last mating was recreational, not reproductive.