Do American GSD breeders need to take their blinders off? - German Shepherd Dog Forums

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Old 08-14-2011, 12:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Do American GSD breeders need to take their blinders off?

This statement was made by Jean Mueller……"Let it be noted that many of the working German line GSDs today are extremely well balanced with excellent temperament. American GSD breeders need to take their blinders off to see what a REAL GSD is all about."

Mueller also discusses in depth the American Showline having extremely slouched hindquarters….something that is considered desirable by American Showline breeders….but may not be in the best interest for the GSD. Please follow this link. Balance Problems with the American Show German Shepherd

Here is a statement from this website-I will guarantee you that Max Von Stephanitz never had the American German Shepherd in mind when he wrote his standards for the breed in the early 1900's.

What are your thoughts on this?

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Old 08-14-2011, 07:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I received "The German Shepherd Dog" by Ernest H. Hart from a friend who found it at a garage sale for 50cents. Published 1985. Mr Hart is a AKC judge, breeder of German Shepherds, etc etc

In this edition, he talks in various parts about the "new" trend in overangulation in the American dogs. He calls it a caricature and even expresses a desire for it to be added to the standard. "Also, it is my contention that overangulation should be mentioned and considered a fault. Coupled with short hocks it can affect movement. The end result of overangulation is sickle hocks." pg 168-169

On structure: "...the American-bred is the more beautiful animal and the German-bred the sounder dog. This is as it should be, for the German dog has been bred from its conception to be a working dog, the utilitarian animal supreme, while the American-bred has been selected solely for its beauty." pg 139

When I read the first section, I could only think "my how times have changed"
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I understand that everyone has their own likes and preferences, but I personally cannot find anything really desirable in the really extreme Am Show lines. I will say that I like how they're diverse in color and not all black/red, but they just seem too long and loose.. the judges may think they have a beautiful trot but IMO their movement looks awkward and at its worst, clumsy. Not the agile, powerful dogs that I normally think of when I think of a GSD.

I'm curious to see what happens a few years down the road if people keep pushing the extreme end of things, just how much worse can it get?

I do really wish though that the US could adopt a similar program as in Germany, with requiring at least basic health/temperament testing and maybe some other kind of measure before breeding. I respect the show breeders who do more with their dogs than just having them "look pretty".

Either way it's a touchy subject that I think gets discussed pretty often, so I'll leave it at that.
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I think alot of breeders need to take their blinders off, not just am show lines, but all the varieties.
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:00 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Great article and pictures for ALL GSD's owners to read... what we buy and are looking for is pushing the market. And if we don't know cause aren't educated, then we won't be able to help make the breed what we want (or don't want!)
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:09 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA View Post
I think alot of breeders need to take their blinders off, not just am show lines, but all the varieties.

How true!!! There are good,bad, mediocre and down right awful in ALL lines and of course in all breeds. I think if we all stopped picking but raised awareness, and tried to work together and educate we might all be better. The number 1 thing is buyers, yep buyers, if we taught people what to ask, what to expect and what to desire we could start down a much better path. If we could dry up the buyers maybe some breeders would have to evaluate their breeding practices.

I do feel the health and temperment must take priority!!!! And by temperment, some of the working line people have to back off as well!!! Some of the over the top, high energy aggressive dogs should not be bred any more than the spook from the other lines. The breed is not supposed to be running on crack, but calm and watchful. All dogs should be able to go and lay down and relax in any situation. Some times winning means incorrect breeding, that doesn't make it right, no matter what venue you are in!!!
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:16 AM   #7 (permalink)
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It is hard to change your conception of beauty.... when for all your time in something, you admire and want to achieve a certain look - even when you start to understand teh deficiency inherent with the look, you (a collective, not specific) cannot change your fundamental belief that that look is incorrect or damaged! Used to know 2 ASL people...even though they switched, they still thought the ASLs were beautiful and the wLs deficient - of course, their characters matched their ASLs - very deficient....

Too many kennel blind people in every type, and every breed....and too many people breeding to market niche who have no clue about what they are doing. Threads about this over and over and over.

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Old 08-14-2011, 01:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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But not all ASL dogs look like that, or act like that. Just because you don't agree with us doesn't mean that it is OK to trash our dogs. My dogs have been doing both performace and conformation for 25+ years.

Yes, there are some that continue to breed to the extreme, and what the average ASL breeder calls extreme is probably more than what others would call extreme. But the pendulum seems to be swinging back toward the middle as there are fewer spcialty shows and more of the champions are finishing in the smaller all-breed rings.

The dogs on either coast tend to be more extreme than the dogs in the center of the country.
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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there are exceptions to every comment Andaka - you are well spoken of....

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Old 08-14-2011, 06:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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In dog shows, do you think that overangulation should be considered a fault?
I guess my problem with this whole thing is that I have heard over and over how we all need to educate ourselves regarding the GSD breed so that we can learn the value of preserving this breed to be what it was originally intended to be, which is a working dog. The qualities that distinguish this breed from any other, are they being watered down in the show line? As I seek to educate myself about the GSD, I keep coming across this over and over. I apologize if my questions are offensive to any breeders here, I am just trying to figure this all out.
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