The Term "Champion"?

Lakl · 07-30-2011, 01:05 PM

The DH was sharing some pics of our dogs to coworkers the other day and ended up in a heated discussion with a woman over the breed and standards. She boasted that she was very knowledgeable about the breed because her father was a "champion" GSD breeder and had dogs that were 110lbs. Of course, the DH went on to inform her that 110lb GSD was not within the standard and wasn't sure they could actively compete at that weight. But the word, "champion" is not something that I've heard used my many GSD breeders. I've heard it used among other breeds and in AKC competitions. What I usually hear is "Titled"? So I was wondering if this term is indeed used by breeders and what it's supposed to really mean if someone uses that to describe their breeding stock - "My dogs are champion GSD's."?

selzer · 07-30-2011, 01:15 PM

There are many champion GSDs. The people say titled here to refer to obedience titles, agility titles, rally titles, tracking and herding titles, schutzhund titles.

But there are also Obedience Champions, OTCH or Agility Champions MACH, Rally Champions RETCH (LOL -- that is a joke folks no retch title), and I am guessing Schutzhund Champions.

But mostly when people say champions they mean comformation champion. CH Cherpa Von Fircrest or something like that. If the dog is shown in the SV, he will have a show rating instead, VA for excellent select, V for excellent, SG for very good. Sieger or Siegerin for the top dog, bitch of the year. In the US we have Grand Victor and Victrix, and not recognized by AKC, but top (specialty) dogs are also rated VA at the nationals.

selzer · 07-30-2011, 01:19 PM

A 110 pound shepherd could conceivably be shown. Actually a 25 inch dog would probably be passed over in the AKC ring as small. There is no disqualifying fault for over-sized in AKC for GSDs as long as the dog is balanced. I would hope that judges would consider serious oversize as detrimental to the overall breed, but Americans have been known to super-size their orders, and if the large dog had something better than a smaller dog, or was put forth by a well known judge or handler, my guess is they could get their CH.

**Andaka** · 07-31-2011, 11:01 AM

But we don't generally refer to breeders as "champion" breeders. They would be breeders of champion dogs.

Smithie86 · 07-31-2011, 11:41 AM

More in the AKC ring. In schutzhund, it is titles. There is no true and official ranking of top schutzhund dogs.

selzer · 08-01-2011, 08:53 PM

Mostly in performance rings, even AKC its titles. There are not that many going for OTCH, etc. There is the UDX title, which is something like a UD leg and an Open leg on the same day times ten, and an RAE which is and RA leg and an RE leg in Rally on the same trial, times ten. People at the trial will say they are on their RAE 4, or they say they are going on their third RAE. I figure 10 times in the RA ring and RE ring on the same day would be and incredible amount of money without much to show for it, but I guess if you have only one dog and have lots of money.... 3 RAEs should give you a RETCH though.

07-30-2011, 01:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
Lakl Master Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 525	The Term "Champion"? The DH was sharing some pics of our dogs to coworkers the other day and ended up in a heated discussion with a woman over the breed and standards. She boasted that she was very knowledgeable about the breed because her father was a "champion" GSD breeder and had dogs that were 110lbs. Of course, the DH went on to inform her that 110lb GSD was not within the standard and wasn't sure they could actively compete at that weight. But the word, "champion" is not something that I've heard used my many GSD breeders. I've heard it used among other breeds and in AKC competitions. What I usually hear is "Titled"? So I was wondering if this term is indeed used by breeders and what it's supposed to really mean if someone uses that to describe their breeding stock - "My dogs are champion GSD's."?

07-30-2011, 01:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
selzer Crowned Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denmark, Ohio Posts: 17,499	There are many champion GSDs. The people say titled here to refer to obedience titles, agility titles, rally titles, tracking and herding titles, schutzhund titles. But there are also Obedience Champions, OTCH or Agility Champions MACH, Rally Champions RETCH (LOL -- that is a joke folks no retch title), and I am guessing Schutzhund Champions. But mostly when people say champions they mean comformation champion. CH Cherpa Von Fircrest or something like that. If the dog is shown in the SV, he will have a show rating instead, VA for excellent select, V for excellent, SG for very good. Sieger or Siegerin for the top dog, bitch of the year. In the US we have Grand Victor and Victrix, and not recognized by AKC, but top (specialty) dogs are also rated VA at the nationals. __________________ RIP Arwen, CD RN CGC RIP Whitney, RN CGC Jenna, RN CGC Babs, CD RA CGC Herding Instinct Certificate Heidi, RA CGC Tori, RN CGC SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD Ninja, RN CGC Milla, RN CGC Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC Dolly & Bear

07-30-2011, 01:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
selzer Crowned Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denmark, Ohio Posts: 17,499	A 110 pound shepherd could conceivably be shown. Actually a 25 inch dog would probably be passed over in the AKC ring as small. There is no disqualifying fault for over-sized in AKC for GSDs as long as the dog is balanced. I would hope that judges would consider serious oversize as detrimental to the overall breed, but Americans have been known to super-size their orders, and if the large dog had something better than a smaller dog, or was put forth by a well known judge or handler, my guess is they could get their CH. __________________ RIP Arwen, CD RN CGC RIP Whitney, RN CGC Jenna, RN CGC Babs, CD RA CGC Herding Instinct Certificate Heidi, RA CGC Tori, RN CGC SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD Ninja, RN CGC Milla, RN CGC Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC Dolly & Bear

07-31-2011, 11:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
Andaka "I like Daffy" Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New Douglas, IL ( near St. Louis) Posts: 2,435	But we don't generally refer to breeders as "champion" breeders. They would be breeders of champion dogs. __________________ Daphne and the Gang at Andaka Where Beauty and Brains Come Together http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/germ...&results_in=10 Home of Ch Natty; Ch Doll; Jag RA (ch ptd); Sara RN (ch ptd); Bella (the new one); and Fisher (Mr. Evil) At the Bridge: Ch Kahla CD; Ch Keno UD HSAs OA; Ch Kizzy HSAs RE; Ch Tag CD RAE2; Ch Pharra; Bee PT; Ch Red the Dachshund

07-31-2011, 11:41 AM	#5 (permalink)
Smithie86 Crowned Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Nashville, TN and Budapest HU Posts: 3,807	More in the AKC ring. In schutzhund, it is titles. There is no true and official ranking of top schutzhund dogs. __________________ Sue www.k9imports.com V KK1 Molinari Enzo SCH3,IPO3,VK3,FH(WUSVx3, FCIx4) HOT KK1 Frodo v Biezenhoeve SCH3,IPO3,HPO3 (WUSVx2, FCIx2)HOT KK1 Tarnoki-Felvigyazo Quamatz SCH3 (HOT), KK1 Griff v Tajgetosz SCH3(BHOT)

08-01-2011, 08:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
selzer Crowned Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denmark, Ohio Posts: 17,499	Mostly in performance rings, even AKC its titles. There are not that many going for OTCH, etc. There is the UDX title, which is something like a UD leg and an Open leg on the same day times ten, and an RAE which is and RA leg and an RE leg in Rally on the same trial, times ten. People at the trial will say they are on their RAE 4, or they say they are going on their third RAE. I figure 10 times in the RA ring and RE ring on the same day would be and incredible amount of money without much to show for it, but I guess if you have only one dog and have lots of money.... 3 RAEs should give you a RETCH though. __________________ RIP Arwen, CD RN CGC RIP Whitney, RN CGC Jenna, RN CGC Babs, CD RA CGC Herding Instinct Certificate Heidi, RA CGC Tori, RN CGC SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD Ninja, RN CGC Milla, RN CGC Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC Dolly & Bear

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