Test that should be done prior to breeding?

[VaBeachFamily]

OK, so I am not planning to breed at this moment, it is way too early, and Cullen is too young, not titled, etc. I did, though, think this would be the best place for this question since breeders are more in tune with what is required. Cullen will be 2 in December, and I will be starting all of his "testing". We are planning to do Hip and Elbow ( thinking we should go with OFA AND Pennhip?), but I also heard that the best 'breeders' do a certain eye test, and other genetic tests. I would love to get more info on these things so that I can have everything done on him, mostly just because if there ever was an idea of breeding, it should be, but also because I just think I should take all precautions regardless. So, can anyone help me with the ideal lists? Also, what do these things run on an average as far as price? ( i haven't priced them, but they WILL get done anyhow, but I do want to have a plan for finances). Thanks

[BlackthornGSD]

In some breeds it's important to do CERF and the dna test for, I think, PRA. CERF only certifies that the eyes are OK at the time of exam. In my GSDs, I've never had any eye problems, so I don't do the testing. If I had ever had any issues, it might be worth going ahead and testing.

In dobermans, it's common to do heart testing--but it doesn't seem to be an issues in GSDs.

There is now a DNA test for the presence of the gene for DM, and that is worth doing--it's around $50 a dog; maybe more through OFA.

Definitely test hips and elbows. Some people do an xray of the spine too--but usually that's done when importing a dog for competition.

In showlines, you might want to consider testing for vonWillebrand's--it's around, but not common.

Another DNA test that might want to do is for the MDR-1 gene--I am tempted to do that just for the knowledge--but it's new and seldom done, so it's not like you can find breeding partners who have been tested.

You should test for brucellosis shortly before breeding.

[VaBeachFamily]

Christine - Thanks@ I knew there was the eye testing, a friend of mine that breeds Czech Vlcaks does it before breeding EVERY time. The DM I think was another I heard.. will have to look into that, and the MDR is I believe the other one. I couldn't remember any of them though What does it normally run altogether for the hips and elbows to be xrayed? I guess I can find out the OFA and Pennhip fees online!

[VaBeachFamily]

Oh... also.... Do you prefer Pennhip or OFA, or should I do both? Again, my breeder friend said that although OFA is used so often, she only uses PennHip, as they score different, and instead of just three or four answers, you get numbers to evaluate, this will be my first time getting into it though, so I am pretty clueless!

[BlackthornGSD]

I prefer OFA. PennHip is meant to be a tool--it gives you a coefficient and you have to decide for yourself what level of coefficient is acceptable. It's a lot harder to explain this to puppy buyers and it will fail dogs that OFA will pass.

So you could say it is a harder test to pass--but I am not convinced that less than ideal PennHip indicates a dog that will have problems with HD at a mature age.

Another way to look at it is that OFA shows what the hips look like at that moment--it doesn't predict the future. PennHip looks at the hips at that moment and then also predicts the future based on the amount of laxity. So, say you are looking at the hips of a 6 month old and you see perfectly clean joints with some laxity--PennHip scores the dog poorly; OFA gives the dog a Good prelim. Which do you place more value in? Do you wash that dog out right then or do you re-xray in another year?

Now, say you are looking at the hips of a 3 year old and they are beautifully formed and get OFA Excellent; you do PennHip at the same time and they give you a bad coefficient, predicting that the hips will degenerate in the future. Which do you place more trust in?

[VomBlack]

Just as a side question: did Cullen's overbite end up correcting itself? if not that may be something you may want to consider, though truthfully i'm not sure how big of a breeding issue that is, not being a breeder or anything.

Or was this a different dog? I don't remember. :S

[VaBeachFamily]

Yes, Cullen does have an overbite... It doesn't seem to be as bad as it was, but it is still existent. It hasn't caused any problems at all, I think I was just over-worrying.

I know it is not desireable, but as I stated, this isn't just a question stated so that I can breed him ( I was requested to stud him on a few occasions, but they were all denied, part because of his age/not having titles and health screenings, part because I am not sure even with all that if it would be beneficial). The vet did though say that by the look of the growth, that he is 90% sure this is not hereditary, and that it should not be an issue, that it just keeps me from being able to show him. Again, I am mostly asking because I just want to do as I should for him as far as screenings/xrays/etc go.

[Xeph]

Hips Elbows and DM test at the very least, IMO

PennHip is more expensive than OFA. They HAVE to put the dog out for it, no two ways about it. Because of the way the dog must be manipulated for the films, they cannot be awake.

Price varies depending on location. When I had Strauss's hips and elbows done (like 5 years ago) his hips, elbows, the cost of the OFA fee, and the cost for his light sedation was under $200.

Mirada cost me $200 (twice) for prelims, and no sedation was used.

I know PennHip can fail a good dog that OFA would pass, but I've also seen scores where a dog was OFA fair, and his PennHip scores were considered excellent (.25 and .31).

[Tbarrios333]

Don't forget the temperament and working ability tests
Also, if someone was trying to get you to stud him while still young, it could mean that they themselves are not a reputable breeder (unless they were willing to wait until your dog is proven). Just because your dog is breed worthy doesn't mean the bitch is, so I would also be selective about who you let him impregnate

[VaBeachFamily]

Tahiry - Yes ( temperment and working ability). I plan on trying for the CGC soon, and as far as working, we are tracking until we decide which way to go, but were invited to join the Search and Rescue team for the state in training and certification after they saw him work randomly at a field I chose that they were in by chance! I personally believe that a certified S&R dog shows just as much work ethic as a Schutzhund or herding dog, but believe me, we won't stop there, whether it be rally, agility, obedience, tracking, herding instinct, herding, etc... we will continue to let Cullen do whatever he is enjoying and does well at! He herds ducks for the school ( and geese mainly) and he has the whole concept down, I am just not educated enough to teach him commands and behaviors, he just naturally herds them around to the front where they want them!
Also, the first person who wanted him as a stud liked his bloodlines, and him, but did NOT realize that even though we participate in sport training, that he is not titled OR of age.. and the last one got a tongue lashing lecture from me about how I will require than any testing I do at a minimum I expect that the others do the same, and that there needs to be some sort of work/show title or something of the matter, then I proceeded to tell them that I wasn't even planning on breeding him or studding him, but if I did, they now know what I would expect. No matter the dog, I feel if I put my name and my dog's name on a litter, I should be proud of that, and that would mean a lot!