Kind of a sad question

[Emoore]

Selzer's thread about her problems with Odessa's litter got me thinking. Seems like you good, responsible breeders have a heck of a time getting these little puppers on the ground.

Gerdeshaus GSD is right down the road from me, I stopped by the other day to chat and she told me that her bitch Cena spontaneously aborted the litter she was due to have in December. The poor thing went through the whole nesting behavior, had false contractions, and even produced milk!

My whole issue with Meerhout started when no less than 3 litters either didn't take or aborted.

And most of the litters I read about include at least one pup that didn't make it.

Is my perception accurate? Does tragedy strike breeders as often as it seems like it does to my limited experience? And why is it that you can "accidentally" have your untitled female breed to the "AKC certified" male down the road and end up with 14 perfectly healthy little $300 dogs, while people trying to import pregnant bitches from Germany or breeding top quality dogs are plagued with problems?

[robinhuerta]

...because of Murphy's Law...(I really can't answer, I've asked myself the same questions).
It can just be stomach turning & heart wrenching...but because of "passion" and dedication....one continues.

[selzer]

I feel the same way. If the scruffy border collie mix hopped two fences and squeezed into my kennel, my bitch would have 14 healthy mixed puppies. While breeding to a top dog, and going through major calisthetics, I have a miss.

Are we trying too hard? Have we done too many tests/ x-rays. This bitch had her rabies vaccine in November, so she could be shipped, could that have been an issue.

Yuppies, who have their education, and their dream job, and their home, and their marriage, often have trouble having that first kid. While high school children often get knocked up with no problems whatsoever. It is almost like the more uncertain you are about your future, the easier it is for your body to conceive. How does that make any sense?

[PupperLove]

.....I have no idea.....I wonder the same thing about tragedies happening, and the statistics and such. Jackson was a survivor! 4 of his littermates didn't make it, and mom had to have a c-section. He wasn't the greatest breeder, no titles on the dogs, but I know he really cared.

I wonder if dogs can possibly sense the pure anticipation and relay it as stress which causes problems? I just wonder....because you are right, I don't, or actually have never heard of a litter, bred in the garage when nobody was watching, that had a tragic ending.

[WarrantsWifey]

I know the litter Killian came from, they lost a boy and a girl, they would have had eight pups, but ended up with six instead... :-( Very Sad Indeed.

[paulag1955]

I want to say I think it has something to do with hybrid vigor.

And to the OP, just because a dog is untitled or lacks papers, it doesn't necessarily follow that it's inferior.

[Emoore]

Originally Posted by paulag1955

And to the OP, just because a dog is untitled or lacks papers, it doesn't necessarily follow that it's inferior.

Nope, just that it shouldn't be bred. My dogs are/were untitled and lacking papers. Of course they're not inferior. But they shouldn't go around reproducing.

[paulag1955]

Originally Posted by Emoore

Nope, just that it shouldn't be bred.

I wasn't trying to argue that it should be, just that lack of titles or papers shouldn't lead one to assume that complications would be more likely due to some sort of problems with the dogs in question.

[Larien]

It is sad, and unfair, but that's life, after all. My miniature horse breeder was the most careful, knowledgeable, responsible breeder - she did everything right and then some, and I'll never forget that heartbreaking night when her most beloved mare AND it's foal died during birth. And yet there's been so many times out here where it's rural when mares get mixed up with stallions by accident, like a nag and a TB, and have perfectly fine foals. And yet that champion mare and her impeccably bred foal were gone. Sometimes it's hard to wrap your head around it all.

[Emoore]

Originally Posted by paulag1955

I wasn't trying to argue that it should be, just that lack of titles or papers shouldn't lead one to assume that complications would be more likely due to some sort of problems with the dogs in question.

Oh no, I'm not trying to argue a causal relationship; I'm just asking a question. It just seems like the more you hope and pray and sweat and bleed and SPEND to make a litter come about, the more chance you have of something going wrong. Just like if you have 6 deposits for females, it guarantees you're going to have only males.