Questions about breeding, genetics, appearance

[paulag1955]

Hey, I saw someone mention in another thread that they think breeding for "things like long hair" will ruin the breed. That got me to thinking.

I'm wondering how breeding for what seems to typically be called appearance (coat length, color, markings) is any different than breeding for a size that conforms to the AKC standard, a blocky head or big bones.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just really curious.

Thanks!

[KLCecil]

Great question! Because that is exactly what most "Show breeders" are doing, breeding for a "specific look" whether it is movement and/or stacked.

[paulag1955]

Originally Posted by KLCecil

Great question! Because that is exactly what most "Show breeders" are doing, breeding for a "specific look" whether it is movement and/or stacked.

That's kind of what I'm thinking.

[rvadog]

Hmmm. Well to be honest I would argue that show breeders are going to ruin the breed just as fast as BYB's.

That said most show breeders are looking at the overall picture of the dog and though they may be focusing on a specific trait (ear set, chest, etc.) they are doing so in a way to keep the rest of the good qualities there. The reason they are looking for that specific trait is because that's what their line lacks at the moment. They are not focusing on head size simply because they like huge heads. If they are then they are just as bad as people breeding specifically for long hair.

[paulag1955]

But why do you consider that bad?

[JKlatsky]

Originally Posted by rvadog

Hmmm. Well to be honest I would argue that show breeders are going to ruin the breed just as fast as BYB's.

That said most show breeders are looking at the overall picture of the dog and though they may be focusing on a specific trait (ear set, chest, etc.) they are doing so in a way to keep the rest of the good qualities there. The reason they are looking for that specific trait is because that's what their line lacks at the moment. They are not focusing on head size simply because they like huge heads. If they are then they are just as bad as people breeding specifically for long hair.

This is what I was thinking.

While there is a general breeding for appearance going on because that is what is ultimately important in the venue they are competing in- a reputable show line breeder should be looking at the appearance of the dog as a whole and not JUST a single recessive trait.

It's okay to like what you like...but I think balance is important. I think it would be better in a program interested in Coated dogs to start with coats produced from stock coats, and then maybe breeding that dog to another stock coat that maybe carries a coat gene. Sure not all the pups produced would be coated, but then the breeder could draw from a much larger genetic pool and be sure that their dogs were suitable candidates in other areas besides coat length. Although to tell you the truth...I've seen enough coated dogs come out of Stock coat breedings to make me think that there are enough of them out there to fill the need without resorting to long coat specific breeders...but I may be getting a tad off topic

[Whiteshepherds]

Will it be fair to assume that because a breeder only has longcoats that they must be ignoring other traits when breeding? Doesn't it depend on how large the gene pool is that they're drawing from?

Which brings up another question...

How does someone determine if there's been too much linebreeding or inbreeding in a line? (besides the obvious)

[rvadog]

How could there be too much inbreeding?

Or better asked, what do you consider too much inbreeding?

[cliffson1]

How to tell if there is too much line/inbreeding going on??? Well it is a scientific fact that too much inbreeding will eventually produce severe health and mental issues. If the dogs that you are linebreeding and inbreeding on, are no longer meeting the health and temperament standards of the breed......you might be doing too much or already have too much!!JMO

[Whiteshepherds]

Originally Posted by rvadog

How could there be too much inbreeding?

Or better asked, what do you consider too much inbreeding?

I thought you were the breeder, I'm just asking the questions.

Isn't inbreeding when you breed father to daughter, brother to sister etc. and I thought if done too often it caused problems. I know it's done to help improve a line but if that's all a breeder does isn't that a bad thing?