Byb

[adamdude04]

At what point does a person become a BYB.

What if a person, knowingly breeds their two dogs at a mature age and sells two of the pups. The rest are for family and friends who requested a pup based on how good looking, behaved the parents were.

Now in the same aspect, a person breeds their dogs to sell each pup for $500 on a site like craigslist. Out of 7 pups, that is $3,500 cash, minus vet bills.

What if same person sells them for $150 a pup? $75? Does this sound like a byb or a mistake, or possibly pups for family friends, the last few sold to good homes?

How much does each pup cost from birth to 8 weeks?


I'm just trying to get an understanding here.. To me a byb is someone who breeds for profit.. I don't know the true cost of raising a pup from birth to 8 weeks but anything less than $150 doesn't seem like much profit..?

[Emoore]

As far as I'm concerned, a byb is anyone who breeds "family pets." If the dogs aren't hip/elbow certified and titled in something to prove nerve and temperament, then that person is more concerned with producing cute puppies or making a profit than they are with the health and temperament of the dogs they produce.

They may do it out of ignorance (they honestly don't know about hip and elbow certs, they've never heard of obedience/agility/schutzhund trials) or they may do it out of greed, but they're still producing cheap animals for the pet market and are backyard breeders. I don't care if they're charging $25 or $2500.

If family and friends want a dog like mine, they can go to my breeder.

[FG167]

Originally Posted by Emoore

As far as I'm concerned, a byb is anyone who breeds "family pets." If the dogs aren't hip/elbow certified and titled in something to prove nerve and temperament...

If family and friends want a dog like mine, they can go to my breeder.

Agree 100%

A "real" breeder is someone breeding to better the breed and is fully aware of bloodlines and pros and cons of certain matches.

A byb breeds their female to the male next door b/c the puppies will be cute.

I don't care about making a profit or not - it's the intent behind. If you're not bettering - don't do it.

[selzer]

Profit has NOTHING to do with it.

A BYB is any breeder who is not a reputable breeder, a puppy mill is the worst type of BYB, with many dogs, terrible conditions, etc.

A reputable breeder breeds dogs and may profit by it, but they have a goal. They are breeding dogs to the standard or for specific type of work. They hold back puppies and use them in their breeding program. They are breeding toward an ideal shepherd. They are breeding to maintain the breed.

Reputable breeders make their decisions on who to breed and to whom to breed their bitch, by considering temperament, conformation, genetics, health histories, and blood lines. They experiment and reject some of their choices.

Reputable breeders offer buyers support and experience, and will take back a dog if it becomes necessary.

Reputable breeders train and trial or show their dogs, stay up to date with dog affairs, and work hard to preserve dog ownership.

Not all of them are able to cover every base, but they should cover most of them.

Everyone else is a BYB, putting together dogs for convenience, to make a few bucks, for their female to have just one litter so they can keep a puppy, because they just love puppies, and those who didn't properly manage their intact dogs.

[Lucy Dog]

To me, a BYB is someone who is not breeding with the intent to make the breed better.

Two purebred AKC dogs are not enough to prove breeding worth.

A dog who is proven they can work (titles), are health tested, are temperament tested (titles), has a strong pedigree, and are within the standard is the minimum of what it takes to be considered breed worthy in my opinion.

Anyone who doesn't do all of the above things I mentioned, I would consider as a back yard breeder. By doing all of these things, you are trying to improve the breed. You are trying to produce the best quality dogs possible.

BYB's usually could care less about trying to better the breed, they're just trying to better their bank account.

[adamdude04]

Now how much does it cost, to raise one pup from birth to 8 weeks?

Now how about this: everyone has a right to a want. What if you have someone who wants a gsd. However they can't afford $1,500 for a dog. They just want a family pet, who is great with kids, protective, and so on.. They can afford the monthly costs and pet insurance. However they just simply can't come up with $1500 cash for a dog.

Now should they be denied a dog of their liking because of cost? There are hundreds of thousands of dogs out there, from byb or mistske breeding, mixed and pure that live happy, quality lifes with families.

So is it quite fair that only the rich can have dogs? To maintain "the breed". Or should there be a balance for good folk who can't afford a huge upfront cost, but want a companion?

I feel byb are a way of life, in a small portion of good. Most however, bad. Bad bad bad. They do give options to good people out there. But I think there are just too many byb out there. Plus a pup pops out 8 pups at a time.. That adds up across the board. It is an out of control problem. But the supply is an option for some.

What's your thoughts?

[Larien]

Basically you have Mary Sue Nobody, who has, let's say since we're here, a GSD she got from another BYB. He looks good to her, has what she seems to think is a nice temperament, and believes everyone will want a dog like this and she will make money breeding him. She's not knowledgeable about breeding, so she breeds him at a year old with some random female on craigslist, and sells the pups for a few hundred dollars. They have no shots, no wormings, no certs, just cute faces that will appeal to equally misinformed people perusing the internet. In some cases, the cycle thus continues.

Everyone else already defined what is generally accepted as describing a reputable breeder, and obviously a BYB is the polar opposite, to simplify. They're one of the biggest reasons why our shelters and rescues are overrun with dogs needing homes, and why innocent dogs are being killed by the thousands.\

EDIT: In response to your latest post, many reputable breeders offer less expensive pet quality animals for sale if they arise in their litters. This doesn't mean the dog is "defective," it just may have a few insignificant faults (too light colored eyes, short back, etc.) that casual pet owners won't mind. Additionally, there are always rescues.

My issue with buying a lesser quality dog is this: Even if your GSD ends up costing you 1,200 dollars, it's still the cheapest part of the equation because dogs cost a lot of money to raise for 14 years. Vet bills, toys, food, grooming, etc. Your statement about having money for everything but not the purchase price of the dog is contradictory, therefore. Also, if you bought a lesser quality dog that came from dogs with no certs for hips/elbows, and it develops problems later in life, you're going to end up paying a LOT more than 1,200 dollars to fix it. So, either invest in a better dog whose chances of being healthy are better and you'll know it started out right because it was well bred and well raised by dedicated breeders, or if you can't afford it, rescue or adopt.

[selzer]

What are my thoughts?

If someone cannot come up with 1500 dollars for a well bred pup from a reputable breeder, than maybe they should consider rescuing a dog from a shelter or reputable rescue organization.

Or, they should adjust their priorities and SAVE UP for the puppy. $1500 is just not that much money for an animal that will be living with you for ten+ years. People see nothing at all wrong with dropping TONS of money into their computers, games, cars, cable, television, and other things that you really do not even need to have, I do not buy it that people are too poor to pay for a dog.

Dogs should NOT be cheap. There is too much responsibility that is required for pet ownership, but we think that we should be able to pay for our dog with the remains of a week's salary.

Put away $50 to $100/month and save up for a dog from a reputable breeder, or rescue one from a pound or rescue. Do not feed the monster.

[Tropism]

Originally Posted by adamdude04

At what point does a person become a BYB.

I think the best definition of a BYB is a breeder who is not interested in the quality of the breed as a whole. It doesn't matter how much they charge for a pup -- if they're not engaged in a thoughtful breeding program, screening for temperament and genetic health defects, they're effectively a BYB.


Titling -- that's a more complicated question. Someone can train their dog to an extremely high degree in SCH, obedience, agility, etc, and never bother to actually do the work to get the dog titled. If they're actually objective in judging the dogs and have consistent standards that they employ, titling isn't exactly necessary. However, as it stands, titles are proofs that a dog has reached a certain level of training and maturity, and are thus can be very useful in judging an animals worthiness to be bred. And, because most people can't be trusted to evaluate their animals in an objective and consistent manner, official organizations are the easiest way to cover this base.

That being said, you'll almost never see a responsible breeder selling pups for a few hundred bucks -- unless they're defective in some way. (F'rex, long-coated, liver, or blue GSDs that've been thrown off in a litter of purebreds.) This is because of the fact that breeding dogs responsibly gets expensive, with low margins due to producing far fewer litters than is technically possible in the same size facility if you didn't care about the animals, vet care, registrations, genetic tests, etc. Plus, of course, the intense investment of -time- into raising breeding dogs and then raising a litter.

I'm willing to pay a thousand bucks or so for a dog that's probably not going to have some horrible crippling genetic disease that will force me, probably years after I've gotten attached to the dog, to make the decision to either put it down or pony up thousands of dollars in vet bills ... and then maybe having it die or be permanently crippled anyway. It's worth it to get a pup which you know has been properly handled, socialized, etc from birth, and is less likely to cost me hundreds or thousands of dollars in either trainers or damages. It's worth knowing that a dog will likely have certain genetic propensities as far as drive and personality go.

I would -like- to pay $200 for a pup, but nowadays that's like paying $200 for a car: if it drives, you're likely lucky if you manage to get it past an inspection once you get it to a mechanic.

[adamdude04]

Originally Posted by selzer

What are my thoughts?

If someone cannot come up with 1500 dollars for a well bred pup from a reputable breeder, than maybe they should consider rescuing a dog from a shelter or reputable rescue organization.

Or, they should adjust their priorities and SAVE UP for the puppy. $1500 is just not that much money for an animal that will be living with you for ten+ years. People see nothing at all wrong with dropping TONS of money into their computers, games, cars, cable, television, and other things that you really do not even need to have, I do not buy it that people are too poor to pay for a dog.

Dogs should NOT be cheap. There is too much responsibility that is required for pet ownership, but we think that we should be able to pay for our dog with the remains of a week's salary.

Put away $50 to $100/month and save up for a dog from a reputable breeder, or rescue one from a pound or rescue. Do not feed the monster.

How about cats? They, like a dog, (typical family) are there as a family pet. They provide all the loving aspects of a dog, minus protection, again considering the type/size of dog.

So why aren't cats under the same concept? If for a loving family member, factors of background shouldn't matter too much, right?

This goes on the same lines as you should get a quality dog. Therefor, if I have a child who is flow blown retarded I should drop em off at the local fire station and try again.

I would think as long as the dog looks, acts, and overall feels to you is just right, nothing else should matter about history or background.. Right?