The "German Malinois"

[Catu]

Originally Posted by Debbieg

Just because a kennel is not showing in Conformation does not mean they do not care about structure. Many of the loups de soleil dogs do Mondio and other sport and I believe some are with the police. Most are in working are very active homes. They must have the correct structure.

And if the 99% of the other breeds had taught us something is that the show ring doesn't care for real working structure and more about extremes.

[idahospud49]

Originally Posted by Jax's Mom

How come when one is not in keeping with what the AKC/CKC has decided is right, we label them BYBs?
If someone knows what they're doing, who's to say they're not a reputable breeder? (Doubt there is an exorbitant amount of these out there, but just sayin')
We've been breeding dogs for 400,000 years (depending on who you ask), so how come we're suddenly done now, all breeds are closed, thanks for coming out!
Uses for dogs are evolving every day, why should we stop looking at new breeds? I'd love to see a non-shedding GSD in my lifetime! ...Not a shepradoodle, curly shepherd or shepoopy but an actual GSD that just doesn't shed! LOL ...and if it's not too much to ask, one with perfect hips/elbows/eyes and lives upwards of 20 years. Have at 'er BYBs!

Agreed!!!!

[AgileGSD]

Originally Posted by Debbieg

Just because a kennel is not showing in Conformation does not mean they do not care about structure. Many of the loups de soleil dogs do Mondio and other sport and I believe some are with the police. Most are in working are very active homes. They must have the correct structure.

I know a Loups de Soleil bitch who IMO could finish in AKC. Of course, her owner has zero interest in such things

Neither breeding for work/sport or the breed ring guarantees a dog will have "correct structure". In UKC conformation (Belgians in UKC are always judged by a breeder judge and the dogs are rated and critiqued at every show), Belgians are judged largely on their head type and outline. A dog with a course head, heavier bone but lovely movement will generally not finish in UKC. In AKC, what judges are looking for in the breed depends on the judge. Some prefer a courser dog, some a more refined dog, some look just at movement, some have to see a certain expression, some have cosmetic hang-ups that will cause them to not put a dog up such as light eyes or white on the chest, some judge based on who's handling the dog and with some, it's anyone's guess. As far as work goes, dogs with the drive and temperament for it can and do work past physical limitations. You can't judge structure based on how well the dog does bite work or how well the dog runs after stuff or jumps. Our rescue corgi doesn't have what anyone would consider to be ideal structure, yet he's a crazy fast agility dog, jumps 12" without issue. Many "proper" corgis jump 8" because their owners feel 12" is too high for them. When we were doing flyball, everyone kept saying "I don't understand how he can be so fast!". It isn't because of his structure - he's got crooked, short legs and isn't all that balanced. It's because that's who he is, he's a dog who loves to go-go-go-go all the time and he does nothing slow.

There are breeders who are using Tervs and Groens out of working Mal lines, some in the US. Denise Fenzi probably has the most established breeding program of working Tervs: Sprite Working Belgian Tervuren

It is true that IV breeding is still pretty common in many countries.