Question for WL Breeders

[Wilhoit]

When you advertise available dogs and state your preference/requirement for " experienced working homes," I take it that you are requiring that prospects need to have already done schutzhund training. I sympathize and would probably prefer/insist on the same qualification. My question is, how does a person (like me), who hasn't yet learned schutzhund acquire this needed qualification? Should people (like me) put off getting a really high quality wl dog (one who can be easily and well trained in schutzhund) from a breeder? Should we, instead, take an experienced schutzhund trainer with us to assess rescues and then train the rescue in schutzhund, and then, many more years down the line, apply for a pup or young dog from a fine wl breeder? Should we consider a retired brood bitch with some schutzhund training and then learn schutzhund with her in order to get this preliminary experience? Any other ideas I should consider? I have no intention of getting my next dog for at least another year, so this question is just a part of my long range preparation.

The reason I would be interested in obtaining a dog from an excellent breeder is just to narrow the odds in my favor with reference to genetic diseases and/or temperament problems. I would want a dog in a year or so who could be trained easily, so a dog with not enough drive to be well trained (one for a "pet home") from a wl breeder is not an option for me.

[onyx'girl]

I think if you start going to a club to observe and learn, the breeder you finally decide on will take that into consideration.
By then you'll know better what you are looking for as far as lines/pedigrees. There also may be someone in the club that has an experienced( or retired) dog you can work to learn more.
While you wait for a pup, going to a club will be really beneficial to you.
I wouldn't pass on a good WL SchH prospect, they are usually easier to train than one that isn't as biddable or have that work ethic of one that isn't "high quality"

[GSDBESTK9]

We will place a high drive puppy with someone who wants to get started in the sport as long as we see commitment and desire to work the dog.

[BlackGSD]

Originally Posted by Wilhoit

I would want a dog in a year or so who could be trained easily, so a dog with not enough drive to be well trained (one for a "pet home") from a wl breeder is not an option for me.

Just because a pup is more "pet quality" than a true working/sport prospect does NOT mean that it doesn't have the drive to become a well trained family member.

[wolfstraum]

Every litter has pups with variations in drive and dominance.....not every pup is going to be sought after by "experienced" working people - most more experienced people buy pups within their clubs or from their trainers who broker dogs - I have actually refused to sell pups to people who are in a club where there are breeders who have litters - and advise the people to get a pup internally as it will just be easier all around....

A client/friend was waiting for over a year for a pup and after a run of bad luck, I found him a pup from another breeder in Czech Republic - super pedigree, sire a BSP/WUSV dog this year, dam from a WUSV male (Belgium) and a top producing female (dam of this years UScA National winner)...he took the pup to a club and was given a very very cold reception - and even told he could not participate in an upcoming seminar because he did not buy the pup from the breeder who was in charge of the seminar. He was ignored by the "in crowd" and then someone else helped him with the pup.....lots of egg on faces....and the pup and friend are slowing becoming part of the group - super super pup - with a beginner, his first pup....

Lots of my pups go to beginners because I want the pup to have a good home - not be a disposable prospect as well.....don't think because you don't have "experience" in the sport you will be ruled out as a home for a pup that has decent working potential.

Lee

[cliffson1]

A small minority of WL breeders advertise that they are looking for working homes BECAUSE the dog would be too much for first time owner. The reason most people advertise that way is they want to get their dog into a home that will title the dog. Its not that the dog couldn't still go into regular home. Anyway, there are many many WL breeders that have pups that don't have these stipulations anyway.JMO

[JKlatsky]

Not a breeder...but I've seen plenty of people go out and buy a Pup with the thought that they will work the dog in Schutzhund...and then life happens, or they lose interest. Many many pups that were originally purchased with the intention of working end up relegated to the couch, and I would say Most do just fine there. Of course some don't. And that's where you'd probably need to be pretty upfront with your breeder about your skill level and desires. You do not need the most dominant drivey pup in the litter to be successful and enjoying training in SchH. Actually I would argue that a good first dog may not always be the flashiest or the hardest hitting, but a nice resilient dog with good drive that will work with you through your mistakes (Which you will of course make).

Some breeders will advertise as working homes only as a way of avoiding the average pet person smitten with the sable coloring and idea of a German bloodline who may not expect a GSD to well...behave like a GSD. Look over some of these posts of people who have their first GSD puppy...HELP my puppy's is aggressively biting me! Help my puppy chased down the kids! Help my puppy won't calm down! These sorts of things are all things that people experenced with WL GSDs don't really bat an eye at and know how to work with...but it can be overwhelming for someone with no experience.

And I agree with Cliff. Most WL breeders want their dogs in homes that will title them because it helps to build the reputation of the kennel. If all their pups go into family homes that do not title the dogs...they might be producing excellent dogs but no one will know because they are not out in the trial reports etc. I think generally if you show commitment and not just a vague idea that you "plan to work" the dog you'll be just fine in

[Cassidy's Mom]

I have a WL girl who was listed as being suitable for an active pet or working home. She still has a LOT of drive, and is ridiculously easy to train because she's very motivated by food and toys, and a genius to boot! I have no doubt that she'd be a very respectable Schuthund dog if I were so inclined, but I'm more interested in agility, flyball, dock diving, maybe herding...

She has been a challenge in many ways and a huge learning experience, but she's also been a ton of fun. In my correspondence with the breeder I was very clear on what my plans for her were (and were not), how much experience I'd had with GSDs, what kind of training I'd done in the past, even going to far as to describe a typical day and week in the life, to make sure that she wasn't going to be too much dog for us. I will say that she's a bit more than I anticipated sometimes, but not more than I can handle.

I would not have inquired about a dog listed as suitable for an experienced working home, nor would the breeder have considered letting me have one.

[angelaw]

And some of those pups are medium drive not high caliber sch prospects, but would be happy working or being a pet. I've sold a few pets that now have their BH's and their owners initially had no intention of doing schutzhund at all.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by BlackGSD

Just because a pup is more "pet quality" than a true working/sport prospect does NOT mean that it doesn't have the drive to become a well trained family member.

I TOTALLY agree.