Question about security deposit

[vukc]

Hi all,

This question is directed to all breeders and non-breeders (owners) of GSD’s and came as a result of reading many posts on this (and other) board(s).
Please note that my intend is not to point fingers at anybody in particular, nor to bash breeders or non-breeders (owners).

Just want to have your honest comment and opinion - that is all.

I have read on many posts and forums (including this one) that breeders complain about honesty of the potential GSD buyers - hence to prove the seriousness for purchase, in most cases buyer must give some sort of deposit in advance. There is nothing wrong with this, and I support this request.
However, let’s say the breeder tells you that your are 3rd on the waiting list for certain litter. You send in deposit thinking that you are 3rd on the waiting list. Then few weeks later you realise (in the conversation with the breeder) that you are 3rd on the waiting list for a certain sex in the litter (male or female).
I know that most of the breeder contracts will say something along these lines "if we happen not to have enough puppies from this certain litter due to unforeseeable events, your deposit will be moved to the next available litter (sometimes they add “of your choice”) in our breeding".

I personally find that this line in the contract is not fair to the buyer.
Why? Well let’s say that there was a reason why you put your deposit for that specific litter (blood lines, personal choice, you love the dam, sire, etc.) Hence, in my opinion with this contract line you are faced with 3 choices:

1. Wait for the next available litter and get a puppy from the parent you did not want (plan) to get it in the first place. (e.g. To exaggerate - I came in to buy Cadillac for $100 you told me put a $10 deposit...... 1 month latter - oh sorry we don't have Cadillac anymore, here is a Chevrolet for $100)

2. Wait X amount of time (sometimes years) until this specific mating pair has repeated mating.

3. Pull out, go somewhere else and lose your deposit all together.


As the breeder or the owner of a GSD, what is your personal opinion on this situation and line in the contact?
Is this line of contract, presented with the situation described above fair to the buyer?
Would it be fairer towards everybody if the buyer in only this case (no exceptions) would be allowed to receive his/her deposit back and go somewhere else to get a GSD?
(E.g. Cadillac dealership in Phoenix does not have certain car model available and will not have certain model available in the near future, do you think if it’s ok that buyer receives his deposit back and go to Cadillac dealership in San Antonio to by the certain car model he was looking for)?


Thank you all for your honest answers.

[DJEtzel]

I've found with a few breeders it's clear that if you do not get the puppy needed (sex, sometimes color, drive/personality/etc.) from the litter you deposited on, that the deposit will be transferred OR refunded.

With others they state it can be transferred, which I do feel is unfair, but I would think that if you talked to the breeder and explained your reasoning, they would let you have your deposit back after the litter you wanted did not produce what you needed, kwim?

[Whiteshepherds]

The breeder we've use twice does not accept deposits but she will put you on a waiting list. You pay for the puppy the day you pick it up.

[selzer]

As a breeder, I take deposits only after puppies are on the ground.

If I cannot provide the puppy at the proper time -- say two puppies die. Then I should return the deposit.

If I have the puppies available, but the buyer for one reason or another has decided not to purchase, too bad, deposit is non-refundable.

Life happens, if something happens that makes this a really bad time to get a puppy, my deposit allows the buyer to transfer the deposit to another litter, but must be used within 18 months.

Mostly though, I look at the deposit as a contract. Both parties are agreeing to conditions. I agree not to sell the puppy reserved for this buyer. They agree to buy it. If they back out, it means more work for me.

I think most breeders are more than fair on how they handle deposits. Buyers just want it all. They want a slot on the waiting list, but they want their money back if it does not turn out as they had expected. When people back out on breeders, the common opinion is tough.

[Dainerra]

you said you were 3rd on the list for a certain sex - why? Did you state you wanted a male (or female)? Does the breeder think that one sex would be better than you - IE you have a dominate male already and a female is just more likely to fit into your household? Any of those and others are valid reasons for the breeder.

Did you talk to the breeder before hand and say "I am only interested in this breeding. Your other dogs are nice, but this combo I feel is best suited for me" Why does it have to be this certain litter (nothing wrong with that,just curious). What if none of the puppies will fit into your lifestyle? Why are none of their other dogs worth looking at?

Honestly, most breeders are willing to work with you as much as they can. But they can't create puppies out of thin air and they won't sell a puppy into a home that is a bad match. If they aren't able to provide what you are looking for and don't plan to repeat this breeding in a reasonable time frame, then yes you should be refunded your deposit. If you just don't trust the breeder, then you probably shouldn't have put a deposit down in the first place.

[Liesje]

If there are lines in the contract you don't believe are fair, why sign it and pay a deposit? Breeders all have their own way of handling contracts and deposits. I need to see the contract before I sign or agree to anything. If I don't like it, I can simply move on to another breeder, or ask questions if I'm misunderstanding something. I guess I would be talking to the breeder rather than asking for interpretation here.

[vukc]

Originally Posted by Dainerra

you said you were 3rd on the list for a certain sex - why? Did you state you wanted a male (or female)? Does the breeder think that one sex would be better than you - IE you have a dominate male already and a female is just more likely to fit into your household? Any of those and others are valid reasons for the breeder.

Did you talk to the breeder before hand and say "I am only interested in this breeding. Your other dogs are nice, but this combo I feel is best suited for me" Why does it have to be this certain litter (nothing wrong with that,just curious). What if none of the puppies will fit into your lifestyle? Why are none of their other dogs worth looking at?

Honestly, most breeders are willing to work with you as much as they can. But they can't create puppies out of thin air and they won't sell a puppy into a home that is a bad match. If they aren't able to provide what you are looking for and don't plan to repeat this breeding in a reasonable time frame, then yes you should be refunded your deposit. If you just don't trust the breeder, then you probably shouldn't have put a deposit down in the first place.

Dainerra,

My feeling is that you are trying to turn things around...And I was wondering why? My questions are honest questions, and it said nowhere that this is happening to me or anybody that I know....If you read my text completely you would realize that this was just a theoretical thinking on my side which constructed the questions in my first post.
So I will try to answer your questions as best as I can - based on the theory (not actual facts) although I think that you did not read (understand) my original question in full.

1. "You said you were 3rd on the list for a certain sex - why?" - Because that person is the 3rd (could be 4th, 5th, 6th) who put a deposit for the female from this litter. Breeder accepts this deposit regardless of the number of people already on the waiting list.
1. "Did you state you wanted a male (or female)?" - Yes person did state that.
2. "Does the breeder think that one sex would be better than you" - No
3. "I am only interested in this breeding. Your other dogs are nice, but this combo I feel is best suited for me" - Yes person stated this.
4. "Why does it have to be this certain litter" - Question back to you - Why do you prefer (for example) Toyota Highlander over Toyota 4Runner - they are both cars from reputable car manufacturer and cost pretty much the same.
5. "What if none of the puppies will fit into your lifestyle?" - This question does not make sense to me, and I find it irrelevant for this topic.
6. "Why are none of their other dogs worth looking at?" - This questions sounds like a salesman pitch trying to sell you something that you are just not interested in. Also to note is that nowhere in the original topic was stated that the person might not be interested in other dogs from the particular kennel.

"If they aren't able to provide what you are looking for and don't plan to repeat this breeding in a reasonable time frame, then yes you should be refunded your deposit." - This statement I agree with 100%

" If you just don't trust the breeder, then you probably shouldn't have put a deposit down in the first place." - With this one I also agree 100% - however the original question in this topic is not whether someone trusts the breeder or not.

Please don't take my answers personally. I am just trying to find out what would be the honest breeder move in the situation described theoretically in my first post.

[Emoore]

My breeder only takes a couple of deposits on each litter. In my case, I talked with my breeder for a long time about what I'm looking for as far as gender, color, nerves, drives, dominance level, etc. I met her dogs and would be happy to have a pup out of any of them. We agreed in advance that I was placing a deposit on a male, sable puppy with balanced, moderate drives and a middle-of-the-road temperament, suitable for a house pet and obedience/agility/ low-level SchutzHund. Before I put down my deposit she made clear to me that the next available litter might have only females, or the only sable boy might be a little monster only suitable for high-level SchH or police work. (not likely as this is a more balanced breeding, but possible) I said I understood this and was willing to wait for the specific puppy that fits my needs and even color preference. She produces a lot of sables.

I think every puppy buyer needs to sit down with their breeder and have a clear conversation like this. A) What am I looking for? Specific color/gender/personality? A puppy specifically from this breeding and no other? B) What happens if this litter doesn't produce what I'm looking for?

In my case, I'm willing to wait for another litter if this one doesn't produce specifically what I'm looking for. I'm impressed enough with this breeder compared to some of the others that I've seen, I'm willing to wait for a dog from her. Someone else might want to take their deposit and go elsewhere. It's all about communication before the deposit is placed.

[vukc]

Originally Posted by Liesje

If there are lines in the contract you don't believe are fair, why sign it and pay a deposit? Breeders all have their own way of handling contracts and deposits. I need to see the contract before I sign or agree to anything. If I don't like it, I can simply move on to another breeder, or ask questions if I'm misunderstanding something. I guess I would be talking to the breeder rather than asking for interpretation here.

Liesje,

Well said, agree with most of your statements 100%. (not all " I guess I would be talking to the breeder rather than asking for interpretation here" since this is a theoretical question)
However some people tend to send deposits before the contract is shown since breeder is not willing (for whatever reason) to show the contract before she/he gets the deposit - This (sending deposit before contract is shown) is a big no-no but people still do it. Your points are excellent. Good advice for somebody who is looking to buy a GSD puppy.

[Deuce]

We placed a deposit and in the event that the color/sex we wanted was not produced the $$$ transferred onto the next little of our choice.