Question about Co-Owning a dog??

[LeftyGinger]

I have never co-owned a dog of any kind and had never even heard of it until recently when some people down the street purchased a boxer as a co-owned dog for show purposes.

That being said, realize I'm out of my realm here and what I'm asking may sound stupid

The neighbors down the street were explaining to me that per their contract if their boxer doesn't win champion (I'm assuming best in show?) by the time he's two years old, they have to return him to the breeder. REALLY???
To me, that just sounds absolutely nuts! I don't understand, but then again I don't understand the whole co-owning thing either. Obviously there's benefits to both sides, but what are they? Why would they have to give the dog back by a certain age if he doesn't win champion, doesn't that sound like they may as well have just given the breeder $1000 instead if he doesn't win and she reclaims the dog?

I. do. not. understand.
Would it not be better to just outright buy a dog? I understand your price may be significantly higher but at least there's not the threat of having your dog taken from you should they not meet certain criteria. I just couldn't imagine having a dog for two years and spending all this money on training and shows only to have the dog taken back, it seems like it'd be all for nothing???

[codmaster]

Might be that they want a show dog and if the dog doesn't win - they want to get another one. might not be that they HAVE to but might WANT to?

There are all kind of strange things put into a co-own contract sometimes.

[LeftyGinger]

They said that their contract states that if their current dog, Boston doesn't get champion by 2 years old, he MUST be returned to the breeder.
It seems like a trick contract to me. I really don't think these guys knew what they got into getting this dog. Their breeder also told them that when the dog won champion, they could breed him and sell the puppies for 6k a piece.
I said, well you should've known the breeder was a crackpot there. A boxer for 6k. That really is nuts.

[Xeph]

Finishing a championship just means acquiring a certain amount of points (if it's AKC, it's 15). Best In Show doesn't matter.

at least there's not the threat of having your dog taken from you should they not meet certain criteria.

That's not really true.

Might be that they want a show dog and if the dog doesn't win - they want to get another one. might not be that they HAVE to but might WANT to?

That could very well be.

A boxer for 6k. That really is nuts.

People will pay it.

[dogfaeries]

I co-own my 2 dogs with their breeders.

I pay for the entry fees to show them (and expenses for me and my dogs at the shows) and they show my dogs for me. I also don't pay the full price for my dogs. Co-owning with my breeders also gives us the Bred-by-Exhibitor class option at the shows.

I bought both dogs as show prospects, so obviously I am obligated to show them. If they don't do well though, then I don't have to keep pursuing it. I can spay them, and they are mine.

I've known my breeders for a really long time, and this works for both of us. I get to have some lovely dogs, and they get 2 more dogs to show without having to live with them and take care of them.

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by dogfaeries

I co-own my 2 dogs with their breeders..............

Co-own contracts also are usually different for males and bitches - usually involves some type of stud service obligation, or no. of litters and who gets the puppies and how long the co-own lasts.

[AgileGSD]

There are no set rules for what breeders require in co-ownerships and there are as many co-owner agreements as there are people involved in them. Some co-ownerships are in name only, some will end after certain terms are met (co-bred litter/litters, stud service, titling, health testing, etc, etc, etc), some are more 50/50 type agreements (both owners split showing/expense, even training evenly) and some are very one sided. There are co-own agreements that benefit everyone involved and ones which benefit one person much more than another.

The contract you are talking about doesn't have much to do with the dog being co-owned, as this sort of contract could apply to a dog owned outright as well. I haven't known anyone to have such an agreement but have heard that some serious show breeders will only sell show potential puppies to people serious about finishing them. So their show contract states if the dog turns out to be show quality and isn't finished/shown/pointed/etc by X date, they have the right to take the dog back. I can't say I'd ever have such a contract or agree to one. However, from a breeder's standpoint, people often say one thing ("we want to show....we'll finish the dog and kept him intact...etc") and do another ("we decided not to show and had him neutered"). That can not only be disappointing but it removes quality dogs from the gene pool.

People often enter into contracts for puppies that aren't reasonable for them to agree to. I think this happens with dogs and puppies because of the emotions involved. I've done it myself! But people really shouldn't enter into written agreements lightly.

[Achielles UD]

Another option crossed my mind... If the family that bought Boston doesn't show him enough that he is able to finish his championship by age 2, the breeder may be requesting him back so that she can hopefully finish him with a more professional handler if need be. Then once finished, be able to have him available to her as a stud and the current owners be able to have/love/own a Champion Boxer in their home.

I don't know But that did cross my mind. I couldn't imagine someone agreeing to a contract like that any other way?

[LeftyGinger]

Thank you for shedding some light on this for me. I haven't ever had a show dog, ever considered one or knew anyone with one which is why I'm so unfamiliar with some of the contracts that can come along with them.

Seeing as how this is the first dog for this family, not just show but any dog ever, I think they took a tough route but they seem dedicated to him which I am thankful for. Sometimes they're judgmental towards my GSD's because they bark (one bark is too many for them) and I continue to explain the difference between the purposes of each of our dogs.
Show dogs obviously can't get excited and bark at other dogs during shows but dogs are meant to bark because of the type of training they will be doing soon.
For the last several months that they've had him, I've talked about socialization between our dogs and the husband was adamant about keeping mine away from theirs. Socialization just didn't happen at all for their dog over the last several months and they realized this past weekend what a mistake that was during one of their shows. The dog was terrified of other dogs and the tents at the show along with most of the various noises.
The family has since come to me to talk about socialization not only with my dogs but what else we can do to expose Boston to everything. They didn't realize how involved I am with exposure for my dogs and we're floored. I offered to take Boston with me while they were working or have them come out with me when they could and we're already planning on spending the day together saturday which I'm thrilled about!

Show stuff is different and I get that, but exposure and socialization is the same across the board, it's just a matter of working on the specific things he will be exposed to at shows.... I'm excited cuz there're no other big dogs in our neighborhood and we're now allowed to play with the only other big one

[GSDBESTK9]

My advice? DON'T DO IT!