Old fashioned? REALLY???

[robinhuerta]

Agree...and Max did not intend this breed to be anything other than what he created.....including the idea, that breeding for the sole purpose of producing "pets" is acceptable.....
The breeding world will always be filled with......"do as I say...not as I do."
Every breeder believes they are doing justice and what they "produce" is best......it's our self esteem button. We all have types we deem "correct", and criticize those that beg to differ.
The (complete) standard is the "blue print" of the breed......either choose to follow it.(to your best ability)...or choose not......ultimately....the choice is yours.
Robin

[atravis]

Originally Posted by GSD07

Maybe to American people but not to the WORLD, hate to disappoint you. My childhood heroes were a border patrol GSD catching spies with his handler, day and night, and a canine member of T-34 crew who was sharing the hardship of war with his handler. So my idea of a pet was and still is a dog that can kick butts first, and then save children

Oh, so you speak for the whole world?
I'm fairly certain Rinty is a international franchise. His inspiration is not limited to this country. Sorry.

[Emoore]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

You would be surprised. Abuse doesn't start by hitting them.

If there are so many kids being systematically abused, so many women raped, so many other people murdered, so many people abusing drugs... what makes you think that there can't be that many dogs abused?

Puppy mills is a form of abuse. Abandoning a pet is abuse, neglecting a dog is abuse. There is physical and verbal abuse.
All these dogs in the shelters have been abused one way or the other and if it was only their trust in humans that got abused.

Yes, but being a puppy machine, being ignored and neglected, being yelled at, being dumped at a shelter. . . these aren't the kind of abuse that will turn an otherwise strong-nerved dog into an animal who's afraid of children, strangers, loud noises, people with hats, and different ethnic groups. It would take true sadism to turn a solid dog into one who's afraid of that much. But when folks come across a dog like that they always want to attribute it to abuse. Besides, 40-50% of kids aren't systematically abused. 40-50% of women aren't raped; 40-50% of people aren't murdered. But roughly 40-50% of the GSDs that come through our rescue have some sort of shy/skittish/weak nerve issue. And that's just sad.

[Doc]

If the Standard is the blueprint, then there are a lot of breeders that can not read a blueprint! And today's Standard is not the one drafted by MvS.

At my age, I have no need to stroke my ego. Hopefully I am breeding German shepherds that represent the Golden age of German shepherds in this country.

[Baby Byron]

Amen, Doc.

[codmaster]

If we agree that genetics provides the raw material of a dogs temperament, we still have the problem of deciding WHICH puppy has the great genetic material so we can ignore their socialization and just tie them in the backyard for 2 years and then take them downtown and into crowds and have them not freak out.

How would we know?

Also, how many puppies (as a %) do you think would turn out to be solid temperamented dogs without normal socilaization? 10%, 1%, more or less?

I think some folks probably ought to look at the research of puppy socialization.

[StarryNite]

I don't know much about this subject, but I have seen the pics of GSD's with their hindquarters so low it makes me cringe and think "ouch". From what I have heard and read that is not originally the breed standard and probably accounts for so many hip problems. I met a guy at the dog park who said he paid $2,500 for his GSD and spent three times that in the first year of his life on vet bills. Again, I am NO expert but that is so sad! Why not keep the breed how they were originally and not for some sort of new show standard which is my understanding of it?

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by codmaster

If we agree that genetics provides the raw material of a dogs temperament, we still have the problem of deciding WHICH puppy has the great genetic material so we can ignore their socialization and just tie them in the backyard for 2 years and then take them downtown and into crowds and have them not freak out.

How would we know?

Also, how many puppies (as a %) do you think would turn out to be solid temperamented dogs without normal socilaization? 10%, 1%, more or less?

I think some folks probably ought to look at the research of puppy socialization.

Thank you.

You can screw an even strong nerved dog up if he got brought up the wrong way.

Like I said before, they are not machines, they are living creatures and socialization is a big part of bringing up a puppy. Especially when they go through the fear phase.

[Doc]

You don't train well behaved dogs, you breed them. A breeder has a good deal of control over genetics - if she/he does their homework, man controls the environment (for the most part) that a dog lives in, but without good genetics, no environment will make a dog social. JMO

[Mrs.K]

Really?

Your dogs obey the commands sit, down and stay automatically? You don't need to train that first? Your dogs are housbroken from the beginning, they never jump at people and know that they can't beg on the table.

They are THAT well behaved from the day they were born because it's all in the genetics?

No need to train a dog at ALL because it's all in the genetics... wow! You really have wonder dogs.

You know, obedience is part of a well-behaved dog.

Lock a dog (as a puppy) into a cage for three years and just give him the food and water. No other contact whatsoever. Genetics might help a little bit but you will have to work hard to socialize him at that age and there'll probably always things that he'll be scared off because those first puppy weeks are CRUCIAL for a dog.

Humans are more intelligent as dogs and they have to go through socialization too. They can have the greatest genetics and still be antisocial if they are around the wrong people.

The some goes for dogs. In the hand of the wrong person you can turn a strong nerved dog into a weapon or a dog that is scared of every human being out or into a great companion.

It all depends on the person that raises that puppy.
But hey... I agree to disagree...