Old fashioned? REALLY??? - Page 5

atravis · 03-10-2010, 02:20 PM

No, I am a she.

LaRen616 · 03-10-2010, 02:36 PM

I was saying I agree with ATravis and felt she was correct when she said:

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but the GSD was designed to be an ALL PURPOSE dog. Being a family pet is a PURPOSE.

Keep in mind that K9, protection, and SAR are not the ONLY jobs a GSD can do. Therapy work, assistance dogs, and guides are also VERY important working venues. A dog does not have to have fight and prey drive out his *** to be a good working dog".

Doc · 03-10-2010, 02:37 PM

I do breed what I honest to God think the German shepherd dog should be. I am guided by the vision of Max and not not a Standard written by a bunch of people that want to influence the breed to their preference. It just so happens to be dogs that JOhn Q Public love. Are they a hit with the show crowd - hail no. Do they perform in the sport of SchH - no and never will. Do I think they represent what a German shepherd was developed to be - yes. Have I bettered the bred - not if I am judged by the Standard. But for concentrating on health, temperament, and structure I honest to God think I have.

**Chris Wild** · 03-10-2010, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atravis

From Rin Tin Tin's own website:

"Duncan worked with the dogs training them to perform as he had seen the German war dogs perform during the war."

Performing behaviors similar to war dogs for a movie does not in any way, shape or form make a dog a war dog. As anyone who works dogs doing protection or rescue or search work or herding or anything else knows, there is a world of difference between being trained to do it and actually doing it in the real world. And likewise, there is a world of difference between being trained to perform behaviors that look like it, and actually being trained for it much less doing it for real.

A dog working with constant commands, direction and feedback from an off camera handler to appear to be rescuing someone from a burning building is not even remotely the same as a dog making the choice of his own violition to rescue someone from a burning building and then pulling it off on his own. Film gives the impression of canine superheros with genius IQs, but it is only an impression.

Sadly for the dogs, while everyone seems to realize actors are just acting and Stallone really isn't Rambo and Daniel Craig isn't really a superspy and Daniel Radcliffe isn't really a teenage wizard, they seem to often think that animal actors are for real. Hence all the dog breed fads with each new Disney movie.

atravis · 03-10-2010, 02:43 PM

I realize what's done in the films is dramatization, thank you. I do have SOME commonsense.

Forgive me for hearing the story differently than you

Doc · 03-10-2010, 02:49 PM

If the Standard is so dang important and powerful, why in hades are we in the dam mess we are today? If that is what the Standard produces - something is bad wrong.

It's hard to say the breeder is only a good if they breed to the Standard and then say the Standard doesn't matter when it comes to such and such for the German shepherd. I have seen many dogs in AKC events that were way bigger than standard. For example, a 27" bitch ended up just over 23" and placed very highly.

A balanced German shepherd can come in many different sizes and not always fall within the Standard. So if a breeder chooses to call their German shepherds "old-fashion" because at some point in the history of the dog, there were many German shepherds that were over the standard, why discard the breeder and the dogs? The breeder never says that her dogs are bred to the standard so the breeder is not lying but actually being truthful. But because the truth does not conform to the Standard - the dogs and breeder are a bad representation of the breed.

Mrs.K · 03-10-2010, 02:54 PM

The reason we are in this mess today is because people started breeding for beauty and there are a lot of people out there that pay thousands of dollars and euros for these dogs.

Every breed that is bred for beauty is going downhill. Not only the Shepherd and as long as there are shows like the Westminster Kennel show it will never stop.

LaRen616 · 03-10-2010, 02:56 PM

I like bigger GSD's but that is my preference. I dont like when their back legs look broken, bending. That is also my preference

**Chris Wild** · 03-10-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atravis

I realize what's done in the films is dramatization, thank you. I do have SOME commonsense.

Forgive me for hearing the story differently than you

I've no doubt you do and didn't mean to imply otherwise. But for many people that is not true.

I was pointing out that the concern over "fads", and you're statement that those dogs weren't fads but true GSDs which is what started the whole RinTinTin/Strongheart tangent in the first place, is a very real and problematic issue. Because many, many people, especially those new to dogs or new to a particular breed do not see the difference. They think Collies are all Lassie and Saints are all Beethovan and GSDs are all Rintys and Stronghearts and Jerry Lees.

atravis · 03-10-2010, 03:08 PM

Yes, sorry about that.

And I do agree. But what they were in the film, and what they were in real life, had a very strong correlation.

Even if they weren't war dogs, and weren't taking people out on the streets, they were still very stable, very admirable dogs. They had to be, considering the amount of exposure they got. I suppose my point was, these dogs, who they were in REAL life, were still the epitome of what the breed should be. Smart, trainable, dependable, rock solid temperament.

03-10-2010, 02:20 PM	#41 (permalink)
atravis Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 416	No, I am a she. __________________ Lex~ Mulder- black GSD [Dogster] [Pedigree]

03-10-2010, 02:43 PM	#45 (permalink)
atravis Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 416	I realize what's done in the films is dramatization, thank you. I do have SOME commonsense. Forgive me for hearing the story differently than you __________________ Lex~ Mulder- black GSD [Dogster] [Pedigree]

03-10-2010, 02:54 PM	#47 (permalink)
Mrs.K Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,235	The reason we are in this mess today is because people started breeding for beauty and there are a lot of people out there that pay thousands of dollars and euros for these dogs. Every breed that is bred for beauty is going downhill. Not only the Shepherd and as long as there are shows like the Westminster Kennel show it will never stop. __________________ Das mir der Hund viel lieber sei sagst du oh Mensch ist Sünde, der Hund bleibt mir im Sturme treu, der Mensch nicht mal im Winde. my blog:Head over Heels into Dog Handling

03-10-2010, 02:56 PM	#48 (permalink)
LaRen616 Knighted Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 2,241	I like bigger GSD's but that is my preference. I dont like when their back legs look broken, bending. That is also my preference Last edited by LaRen616; 03-10-2010 at 03:01 PM.

03-10-2010, 03:08 PM	#50 (permalink)
atravis Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 416	Yes, sorry about that. And I do agree. But what they were in the film, and what they were in real life, had a very strong correlation. Even if they weren't war dogs, and weren't taking people out on the streets, they were still very stable, very admirable dogs. They had to be, considering the amount of exposure they got. I suppose my point was, these dogs, who they were in REAL life, were still the epitome of what the breed should be. Smart, trainable, dependable, rock solid temperament. __________________ Lex~ Mulder- black GSD [Dogster] [Pedigree]

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03-10-2010, 02:36 PM	#42 (permalink)
LaRen616 Knighted Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 2,241	I was saying I agree with ATravis and felt she was correct when she said: "Correct me if I'm wrong, but the GSD was designed to be an ALL PURPOSE dog. Being a family pet is a PURPOSE. Keep in mind that K9, protection, and SAR are not the ONLY jobs a GSD can do. Therapy work, assistance dogs, and guides are also VERY important working venues. A dog does not have to have fight and prey drive out his *** to be a good working dog".

03-10-2010, 02:37 PM	#43 (permalink)
Doc Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,245	I do breed what I honest to God think the German shepherd dog should be. I am guided by the vision of Max and not not a Standard written by a bunch of people that want to influence the breed to their preference. It just so happens to be dogs that JOhn Q Public love. Are they a hit with the show crowd - hail no. Do they perform in the sport of SchH - no and never will. Do I think they represent what a German shepherd was developed to be - yes. Have I bettered the bred - not if I am judged by the Standard. But for concentrating on health, temperament, and structure I honest to God think I have.

03-10-2010, 02:49 PM	#46 (permalink)
Doc Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,245	If the Standard is so dang important and powerful, why in hades are we in the dam mess we are today? If that is what the Standard produces - something is bad wrong. It's hard to say the breeder is only a good if they breed to the Standard and then say the Standard doesn't matter when it comes to such and such for the German shepherd. I have seen many dogs in AKC events that were way bigger than standard. For example, a 27" bitch ended up just over 23" and placed very highly. A balanced German shepherd can come in many different sizes and not always fall within the Standard. So if a breeder chooses to call their German shepherds "old-fashion" because at some point in the history of the dog, there were many German shepherds that were over the standard, why discard the breeder and the dogs? The breeder never says that her dogs are bred to the standard so the breeder is not lying but actually being truthful. But because the truth does not conform to the Standard - the dogs and breeder are a bad representation of the breed.