Old fashioned? REALLY???

[Samba]

Unfortunately, in the "knowing" part of me, I sense Anne is quite right. She is not the only one saying such though. Myself not around long enough to have seen what was as compared to what is. That situation will only become more common.

It may be too late. I wouldn't know.

This morning I was just saying thank goodness I found this Catahoula dog. It is a fine thing to work with a breed still so close to its working roots without having suffered the vagaries of breeding influenced by show or sport competition. When I am around him, it really makes me think about what turns the German Shepherd breed has taken over the last few decades.

It's the fat lady thing again. Have we come to the last verse?

[GSD07]

Originally Posted by Vandal

... haven't an once of a protective instinct in protection.

I think like a lot of people are afraid of the protective instinct and believe that this trait has to be exterminated. How often even on on this board it's labeled 'thyroid problem' or 'fear aggression' right away and instead of working with it everyone comes up with ideas how to suppress it. Being called 'Golden retriever of German shepherds' is taken as a compliment for a dog ...

[Vandal]

Yes, now the protective instinct has been added to the long list of health problems . lol. It's so sad it is amusing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS45_8JFG_s

Here is a nice video of some modern show line dogs. I will be happy to embed it if someone would tell me how. These are all progeny of the 2007 German Sieger.
Big or small, "old fashioned" looks better with each passing year. The title of the song playing is QUITE appropriate. "Fix You"....

BTW, for those in this thread confused about sloped backs etc. This video is an EXCELLENT example of what is causing it. Look at the rear leg on just about every dog in this video. The rear leg is much longer than most normal looking GSDs. The bottom of the stifle, ( curve in the rear leg), runs parallel to the ground for about 2 to 3 inches. It is not supposed to do that. That is a big contributor to the "slope" you are talking about but since that didn't seem to do enough for these breeders, we now have the rather significant drop off right in the middle of the back.
This video I find to be exceptionally sad.

[Samba]

I couldn't get the video to open. Perhaps that's best.

[Vandal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS45_8JFG_s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS45_8JFG_s

Try again? Oh, and not the Sieger...VA 2

[mysablegsd]

I don't know nothin 'bout nothin, but I can say of all the dogs I have been around, from WFT as a small child on up to the dogs we had when our boys were young and to now, the 3 GSDs we have had ALL had sensitive stomachs. Thank God none of the things I read about , but sensitive none the less.

Vandal, your posts are spot on in my opinion.

[Samba]

It is just as I suspected. The WGSL have selected for the longer femur bone resulting in a large bend of stifle and a femur that is parallel to the ground when stacked. They will now have the coveted transmission that the ASL have enjoyed for years. There is the particular and peculiar shape of the back that they can call all their own though.

[LaRen616]

Those poor dogs!! They look terrible. It looks like the next thing they are going to do is walk on their hind legs

[JOSHUA SAMPSON]

leisje - great pics i love the action shots!!

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Vandal

Well, I have an issue with how LONG it took for people to see the problems. Now that things are about as bad as they can get, they think it's time to adjust. How they are chosing to adjust will , IMO, only make matters worse.
Not only did people ignore the problems, they made excuses for them. I personally , have been commenting on the way things are for the last ten years. Am I some kind of a psychic? No, anyone who WANTED to see, would have been able to understand where things were heading. Plain and simple, people ignored all of it because their was fame and money to be made.

As for structure in the working lines, they are starting to look like the modern show line dog and THAT is not correct IMO. The drives are overriding the dog's ability to think as well . Also, the show dogs are far from fixed as far as temperament. I remember people claiming how much better things were about five years ago and it has continued to decline to a point that I personally find dangerous for all breeders. As I said in the "fat lady" thread, the looks and the temperament displayed at the Sieger Shows will be used by the AR groups to prove their point. It has already started with the UK documentary.
As for SchH, it has become about style and points and only last year did they talk about changing things back to the way it used to be. Well, it just might be too late. Dogs with the nerve strength to restore the working lines are becoming exceptionally hard to find. People who understand good nerves, ( or GSD temperament for that matter), are almost extinct. SchH people have allowed Malionois trainers to tell them how to train a GSD. PFFFFFFT. The lack of understanding about what a GSD was intended to be and how to work with those qualities is contributing to the further demise of the breed's temperament.

You have both sides now trying to combine two problems. How anyone thinks that is going to fix this mess is beyond me. Unfortunately, many people involved in both showing and SchH never saw GSDs with the right temperament. Now we have GSDs who resemble circus animals in the obedience portion and haven't an once of a protective instinct in protection. Show people who refuse to understand that the structure they promote is simply hideous. Sorry, that is my take and will remain the way I see things. The extremes continue and combining the two will only make things much worse.

Amen. It has been a very hard and long 30 years watching this decline. How much further can we go?